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  1. Registered User

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    Default Die Cast hoops or not and are they that important

    Hey team, I was wondering if someone could help me understand if there are actually fundamental differences between die cast hoops and normal hoops (2.3mm)

    I have been playing with the idea of maybe changing kit and the company that I am thinking of going with (Kdrums here in New Zealand) doesn't offer die cast hoops option. I use to be very fussy and I have always wanted a kit with Die Cast hoops but now that I have one, I am not sure that it is actually that much different in terms of sound, clarity and projection than a normal 2.3mm hoops.

    My Saturn kit had a phenomenal sound and had 2.3mm hoops on.

    Thanks in advance
    "I consider every drummer that ever played before me an influence, in every way"
    Buddy Rich





  2. Registered User

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    If you do with K drums, be prepared to own them for life because they have no resale value whatsoever. As far as the hoops go, they supposedly make a bit of difference, i think they lessen the overtones and "focus" the sound and make it a bit drier. I'm sure there would be some back to back comparisons on youtube somewhere.

  3. Registered User

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    Here’s a link to an old video of Bob Gatzen on this subject.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1UfQPlHS4d4

    Also there will be a difference when tuning heads since die cast hoops are more rigid.
    My previous Ludwig kit; Pearl Sensitone Aluminum , Pork Pie, Black Panther and Crush snares.
    DW 5000, Pearl modded P-102, P-120P & P-2002B. IC Powerglide. Many cymbals from the big 3.
    Tiny pic of my old cymbal setup.

  4. old dog, new tricks

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    You should look into S Hoops. I have them on one of my stave snares and they are awesome; kind of a combination of triple flange and die-cast. They play really nicely, tune up well and help with overtones. I would have put them on my whole kit if they came in black nickel but they only come in chrome.

    They are also significantly less expensive than die-cast hoops.
    “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” - Harlan Ellison

    link below for my kit build thread

    https://www.pearldrummersforum.com/s...t-build-thread

  5. Registered User

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    Quote Originally Posted by keaton_86 View Post
    If you do with K drums, be prepared to own them for life because they have no resale value whatsoever. As far as the hoops go, they supposedly make a bit of difference, i think they lessen the overtones and "focus" the sound and make it a bit drier. I'm sure there would be some back to back comparisons on youtube somewhere.
    Interesting point you made about re sale value. I have only ever seen one K drum kit on Trade Me and it did sell actually. I cant remember how much tho but it was out there.
    It might actually be a deal changer then if you think I wouldn't be able to sell them later on.

    I might have to go back and think this through
    "I consider every drummer that ever played before me an influence, in every way"
    Buddy Rich





  6. Registered User

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendell View Post
    Here’s a link to an old video of Bob Gatzen on this subject.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1UfQPlHS4d4

    Also there will be a difference when tuning heads since die cast hoops are more rigid.
    That was actually very insightful. Thank you and I do like the look of Die Cast hoop better
    "I consider every drummer that ever played before me an influence, in every way"
    Buddy Rich





  7. Registered User

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocdrums View Post
    Interesting point you made about re sale value. I have only ever seen one K drum kit on Trade Me and it did sell actually. I cant remember how much tho but it was out there.
    It might actually be a deal changer then if you think I wouldn't be able to sell them later on.

    I might have to go back and think this through
    Yeah mate, the market for high end custom drums in NZ is pretty dang small. To be honest, most custom drums have this issue. Think carefully before you do it. I don't wanna rain on your parade, just giving you a heads up. I know a mate of the guy who started K drums and they all seem like super nice guys though.

  8. The Sensitone Guy

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    I have die cast, 1.6mm, 2.3mm and 3.0mm hoops on my various drums. Honestly, I can't tell any difference in sound.

  9. Registered User

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy H View Post
    I have die cast, 1.6mm, 2.3mm and 3.0mm hoops on my various drums. Honestly, I can't tell any difference in sound.
    yeah. i tend to lean towards that too. They do hold the tuning better tho and esthetically they look better but it seems thats about it
    "I consider every drummer that ever played before me an influence, in every way"
    Buddy Rich





  10. Registered User

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    There is a whole load of difference in sound, in fact — if your drums are actually tuned for you to be able to sense a difference in the first place.

    As a general rule of thumb when it comes to hoops, flanged hoops will produce an open and ‘ringy’ sound due to the characteristic nature of the flanged edges, whereas die cast hoops will produce a tight and focused sound due to the characteristic nature of the straight edges. Straight-edge and (inwards) round-edge hybrid hoops combine the most desirable characteristics of both flanged and die cast hoops.

    1.6mm flanged hoops are light and often exhibit abysmal integrity, meaning they vibrate in unison with the head and drum, hence will give you an obtuse sound with less attack/ responsiveness and a vague fundamental note plagued by harmonics - if that’s what you’re into. They are very open and resonant due to their light weight; however, detune very easily and are often very cheaply made so will most likely have a number of burred edges on the underside of the bolt apertures which can cut up your fingers. Best to change these ASAP.

    2.3mm flanged hoops are a premium option so will often be produced to higher standards. Hopefully no burrs and cut fingers. These are heavier and have a stiffer integrity meaning they will vibrate less in unison with the head and drum, resulting in a more distinct sound that is open, rich in tone and resonance, and recognisable to a fundamental note. Since they are heavier they retain the drum’s tuning for longer and provide more head responsiveness.

    Die cast hoops are the most premium, heavy, and rigid of the standard hoops. The weight and stiffness translate to minimal vibration of the hoops resulting in a very focused and punchy sound recognisable to a precise fundamental note with little harmonics. Being the heaviest and stiffest, you can tune a drum very high or low with these and they will still retain their tuning with lots of head responsiveness.

    As mentioned above, there are a number of ‘hybrid’ hoops that combine the benefits of flanged hoops and die cast hoops. These provide maximal tone resonance with maximal focus and definition. A great example are the 1.6mm Pearl Fat Tone hoops. They sound killer on toms and are produced to a very high standard. Other options are the S-hoop mentioned above, Tama’s Sound Arc hoops, Canopus’ Straight and Round Edge hoops, and Gretsch’s 302 hoops.

    Hope this helps.
    Looking for PEARL MCX 18"x16" VIRGIN BASS DRUM (or MCT, or Reference Pure)
    and POWER WRIST BUILDERS 3S BRASS (28oz / 795 grams)(Discontinued).
    If you have any leads, kindly PM me!

    <3 Pearl <3

  11. Registered User

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    As an addendum: you’ll probably notice the most apparent difference on a snare drum. Bite, projection, and focus are very distinguishable on rimshots and cross-stick.

    With a die cast hoop, on lower tunings the drum will sound very fat compared to the same one at the exact same tuning using a 2.3mm flanged hoop. On higher tunings, you’ll hear a more pronounced pop with die cast hoops. There will always be more ‘ring’ with a flanged hoop regardless.

    Ultimately, it really depends on what you want of it at the end of the day. No one option is ‘better’ than the other, per se. It’s just personal preference.

    Best wishes going forward.
    Last edited by Megyalila Ballad; 08-29-2021 at 04:20 PM.
    Looking for PEARL MCX 18"x16" VIRGIN BASS DRUM (or MCT, or Reference Pure)
    and POWER WRIST BUILDERS 3S BRASS (28oz / 795 grams)(Discontinued).
    If you have any leads, kindly PM me!

    <3 Pearl <3

  12. Registered User

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megyalila Ballad View Post
    As an addendum: you’ll probably notice the most apparent difference on a snare drum. Bite, projection, and focus are very distinguishable on rimshots and cross-stick.

    With a die cast hoop, on lower tunings the drum will sound very fat compared to the same one at the exact same tuning using a 2.3mm flanged hoop. On higher tunings, you’ll hear a more pronounced pop with die cast hoops. There will always be more ‘ring’ with a flanged hoop regardless.

    Ultimately, it really depends on what you want of it at the end of the day. No one option is ‘better’ than the other, per se. It’s just personal preference.

    Best wishes going forward.
    That's a great review man. Thank you. Like I said I had 2.3mm before on my Mapex and the kit sounded fantastic. (not all due to the hoops obviously) I might just stick with Die Cast hoops and start thinking about either an other Tama kit or a Pearl.
    "I consider every drummer that ever played before me an influence, in every way"
    Buddy Rich





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