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  1. Dalmi Joedi - Jedi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumming-4-Life View Post
    Obviously not very scientific. Is it possible that there are too many small companies out there, making products that no one wants? Is it also possible that companies are realizing that spending valuable funds to go to trade shows is pointless, when they can go straight to consumers through a good Internet presence and through a well-orchestrated social media campaign? Think about what was available to us in the 80's and 90's... almost nothing compared to what's available today. The variety and availability is just overwhelming, in all aspects of drumming... drums, cymbals, hardware, electronics... you name it.
    I am not sure why you are being aggressive here. Quite frankly, I really don't care, but I know what I know.

    I think what you need to realize you are rare breed. Next to know one gets a huge top of the line kit every other year and you have to know it, because if people did, no one would give your kits half the gawking they seem to get.

    I am a rare breed too for christ sake. I have 5 top of the line kits, which most people don't have. Yet, even though I love getting new gear, I haven't bought a new kit since 2011.

    Look around here. How many people are buying new kits? And we are gear dorks otherwise we most likely wouldn't be on these various drum forums.

    Pearl will never tell us how many Masterworks kits they are selling today compared to years ago. All I know is I saw their section on the main floor was HUGE when I first went to NAMM over a dozen years ago. Then it dropped down to what was normal for some of the other bigger companies, but still bigger than them. Now they are upstairs, with the advantage of being quieter, but it's definitely tighter than ever.

    The entire drum section has easily slipped in half of what it was back when I first went and that is even with some guitar companies slipping in. If you want to try to make it about trade show value, then the electronic section shouldn't be growing like it is.

    NOW with all that said, since of course you didn't trust me, here are your statistics for you. Since 2006-2017 total new drum sales have gone down from $519,270,000 to $373,060,000. Of course though, I had no idea what I was talking about by who I know.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...uments-market/

  2. Playing since 1976

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    Quote Originally Posted by dale w miller View Post
    I am not sure why you are being aggressive here. Quite frankly, I really don't care, but I know what I know.

    I think what you need to realize you are rare breed. Next to know one gets a huge top of the line kit every other year and you have to know it, because if people did, no one would give your kits half the gawking they seem to get.

    I am a rare breed too for christ sake. I have 5 top of the line kits, which most people don't have. Yet, even though I love getting new gear, I haven't bought a new kit since 2011.

    Look around here. How many people are buying new kits? And we are gear dorks otherwise we most likely wouldn't be on these various drum forums.

    Pearl will never tell us how many Masterworks kits they are selling today compared to years ago. All I know is I saw their section on the main floor was HUGE when I first went to NAMM over a dozen years ago. Then it dropped down to what was normal for some of the other bigger companies, but still bigger than them. Now they are upstairs, with the advantage of being quieter, but it's definitely tighter than ever.

    The entire drum section has easily slipped in half of what it was back when I first went and that is even with some guitar companies slipping in. If you want to try to make it about trade show value, then the electronic section shouldn't be growing like it is.

    NOW with all that said, since of course you didn't trust me, here are your statistics for you. Since 2006-2017 total new drum sales have gone down from $519,270,000 to $373,060,000. Of course though, I had no idea what I was talking about by who I know.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...uments-market/
    I'm not being aggressive, I'm making conversation. The fact that the drum section at NAMM "has easily slipped in half of what it was" shows that the companies are finding other ways to delegate their promotional resources, because the industry has not slipped to half of what it was in sales, it's only decreased 28.2% in the window of time you chose. It appears that you started going to NAMM at the height of the convention's popularity, with respect to drums at least. If you change the window of time, you will see the circumstances seem much less dire. For example, from the statistics you provided, the retail sales only decreased 7.3% from 2009 to 2017, and less than 1% (0.78%) from 2014 to 2017. The year-by-year figures seem to indicate that there was a drop, but losses seem to be leveling off. Maybe we will even see an increase in 2018?
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  3. Dalmi Joedi - Jedi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumming-4-Life View Post
    I'm not being aggressive, I'm making conversation. The fact that the drum section at NAMM "has easily slipped in half of what it was" shows that the companies are finding other ways to delegate their promotional resources, because the industry has not slipped to half of what it was in sales, it's only decreased 28.2% in the window of time you chose. It appears that you started going to NAMM at the height of the convention's popularity, with respect to drums at least. If you change the window of time, you will see the circumstances seem much less dire. For example, from the statistics you provided, the retail sales only decreased 7.3% from 2009 to 2017, and less than 1% (0.78%) from 2014 to 2017. The year-by-year figures seem to indicate that there was a drop, but losses seem to be leveling off. Maybe we will even see an increase in 2018?
    Don't try to weasel out of this, because we all know the attitude you were giving. Your "no answer" statement shows that, but for the sake of "conversation", I will continue.

    Of course, the drum companies have seen NAMM not as necessary as it once was. All businesses value their public presence, but if the sales are falling, that is one of the first things that are cut. If they weren't losing the money they are, simply the presence of being at NAMM would be worth it regardless of what direct sales are brought in from it. Why else does Coca-Cola still advertise?

    You stated that NAMM was at it's peak of popularity when I first started going. That is also when drum sales were at its peak in recent years. With the electronic, keyboard, and recording section growing, it shows there is plenty of value being at NAMM.

    You can state all of the percentages you want. The bottom line is the industry is down $146 million from what it was a dozen years ago. At this rate, I will be surprised if any of the smaller companies can hold on with any level of success in the next dozen years and with rise of EDM and Hip-hop, I don't see much hope showing otherwise.

    As a business owner of 15 years, I know what it takes to keep a business in the black. But of course, I would have to open my books to you to prove that.

  4. Playing since 1976

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    Quote Originally Posted by dale w miller View Post
    Don't try to weasel out of this, because we all know the attitude you were giving. Your "no answer" statement shows that, but for the sake of "conversation", I will continue.

    Of course, the drum companies have seen NAMM not as necessary as it once was. All businesses value their public presence, but if the sales are falling, that is one of the first things that are cut. If they weren't losing the money they are, simply the presence of being at NAMM would be worth it regardless of what direct sales are brought in from it. Why else does Coca-Cola still advertise?

    You stated that NAMM was at it's peak of popularity when I first started going. That is also when drum sales were at its peak in recent years. With the electronic, keyboard, and recording section growing, it shows there is plenty of value being at NAMM.

    You can state all of the percentages you want. The bottom line is the industry is down $146 million from what it was a dozen years ago. At this rate, I will be surprised if any of the smaller companies can hold on with any level of success in the next dozen years and with rise of EDM and Hip-hop, I don't see much hope showing otherwise.
    Weasel... now that's aggressive. I made the statement "No answer..." because you originally had no reply, but replied to others. Then you replied with this... which had no specific substance or evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by dale w miller View Post
    Total sales that many of the smaller companies have told me and it's apparent by the size of booths and the amount exhibitors at NAMM constantly shrinking from year to year while the electronic/keyboard/recording section is constantly growing.
    Then when I called you on your vague response, you gave one figure, based on a very specific time window. I showed you that if you look at different time windows, the scenario doesn't seem quite so bleak. You're the one who should be trying to look for the positive, as you're "in the business."

    Quote Originally Posted by dale w miller View Post
    As a business owner of 15 years, I know what it takes to keep a business in the black. But of course, I would have to open my books to you to prove that.
    Is the business you're referring to the percussion accessories?
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  5. Dalmi Joedi - Jedi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumming-4-Life View Post
    Weasel... now that's aggressive.
    Itís responsive to the tone you set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumming-4-Life View Post
    Is the business you're referring to the percussion accessories?
    No.

  6. Registered User

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    Can't we all just get along?
    Pearl/Dixon/Paiste/LP/Remo/Pro-Mark 5ABN

  7. Dalmi Joedi - Jedi

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKeaton View Post
    Can't we all just get along?
    https://youtu.be/1sONfxPCTU0

  8. Registered User

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    Yes, absolutely mint. LOVE IT!
    Repetition is Recognition

  9. Playing since 1976

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    Quote Originally Posted by ondrums View Post
    Yes, absolutely mint. LOVE IT!
    Do you have new pics of the DW kit set up?
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