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Verry rare Ludwig LM411

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  • Verry rare Ludwig LM411

    This is my snare Ludwig LM411 maple with reinforcement rings.
    I do not find it on any catalogue nor on Internet.

    I think that I will sell it.
    Which could be its current value?

    Badge number : 1046713.
    Attached Files
    Pearl MRX - MMX - MHX - Contempo III - Sabian AA - AAX - HH - HHX - TDW-20 - All the VExpressions Packs - SPD-S

  • #2
    What sort of badge does it have?
    The serial number you quoted means it should have a BO badge, the serial number puts it's manufacture circa 1976.
    With a Supersensitive strainer system.
    The strainer on the drum in your pics is also supersensitive, but from the 60's.

    Something seems not right...
    Last edited by 3pearlkits; 03-08-2017, 03:11 PM.
    My revamped Pearl DX kit (now with 8" tom)
    My refurbished 72 NC Deluxe Pearl Kit
    My early 80's G314LXDC Pearl Snare
    Catalogue Corner Thread
    Restoring and refinishing (vintage) drums
    My Snare build

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 3pearlkits View Post
      What sort of badge does it have?
      The serial number you quoted means it should have a BO badge, the serial number puts it's manufacture circa 1976.
      With a Supersensitive strainer system.
      The strainer on the drum in your pics is also supersensitive, but from the 60's.

      Something seems not right...
      Here is the badge…
      Attached Files
      Pearl MRX - MMX - MHX - Contempo III - Sabian AA - AAX - HH - HHX - TDW-20 - All the VExpressions Packs - SPD-S

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jimpy View Post
        Here is the badge…
        Thanks for posting that badge pic up.
        It certainly confirms it is a BO badge. As I said, that serial number is from 1976.

        It is very worrying that the snare action is from the 60' s though.

        Do you know anything at all about the history of the drum?
        My revamped Pearl DX kit (now with 8" tom)
        My refurbished 72 NC Deluxe Pearl Kit
        My early 80's G314LXDC Pearl Snare
        Catalogue Corner Thread
        Restoring and refinishing (vintage) drums
        My Snare build

        Comment


        • #5
          Seems like a "franken-drum"
          sigpic
          DESPERATELY SEEKING A MHX BASS DRUM WITH A BB-3 TOM MOUNT IN WINE RED

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 3pearlkits View Post
            Thanks for posting that badge pic up.
            It certainly confirms it is a BO badge. As I said, that serial number is from 1976.

            It is very worrying that the snare action is from the 60' s though.

            Do you know anything at all about the history of the drum?
            No, I don't have informations about this snare !
            Pearl MRX - MMX - MHX - Contempo III - Sabian AA - AAX - HH - HHX - TDW-20 - All the VExpressions Packs - SPD-S

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 3pearlkits View Post
              Thanks for posting that badge pic up.
              It certainly confirms it is a BO badge. As I said, that serial number is from 1976.

              It is very worrying that the snare action is from the 60' s though.

              Do you know anything at all about the history of the drum?
              That SS strainer in it's entirety is consistent with the year of the drum (1976). Here is a link to the differences: http://snaredrumz.blogspot.com/2010/...ive-snare.html
              I am none too sure at the assessment of a "frankendrum". There are both keystone badged (60's) and Blue/Olive (70s) badged wood supersensitives out there. There was a 1973 on eBay not to long ago, and Bun E Carlos has a 60's BDP version. Ludwig did not like to make these as they thought the hardware would choke the drum. But you could special order them, at least for a while. I believe a little research may find that this indeed could be what the OP thought it was.

              here is a picture of a 1976 Ludalloy Supersensitive .
              Click image for larger version

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              Last edited by Rotarded; 03-09-2017, 04:31 PM.
              1964 Ludwig Downbeat 6pc
              1976 Ludwig Stainless Steel 4pc
              1998 Ayotte Custom "Ray Era" Wood Hoop 5pc

              Zildjians: A Customs and Vintage As

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jimpy View Post
                No, I don't have informations about this snare !
                Edited: Due to the above post

                Pity.

                I'm sure it's a nice snare to listen to and play.
                That's important for most drummers, but your initial question was about value.
                And, the answer is, it depends. On what someone is willing to pay.

                The criteria for anything vintage to get top dollar from a collector is: complete, original and in at least good, if not excellent condition.
                And you also need provenance, being able to prove the drums history.
                That doesn't describe your drum at all. Internally there is obvious corrosion on the screws holding the lugs, the internal muffler and it's hardware are rusted. Externally, there is pitting in the chrome and badge, it's not clean, you don't have provenance.

                All that significantly decreases value to a collector, so, I would try and work out an average price based on you auction sites in Belgium, and perhaps other local countries, and see if you can get at least that for it at auction yourself. I say this, because the value, given in US dollars, from US PDF'ers, might not reflect your local market.

                You may improve your expected auction price by giving the drum a thorough clean and polish as well.

                Hope this helps...
                Last edited by 3pearlkits; 03-09-2017, 07:13 PM.
                My revamped Pearl DX kit (now with 8" tom)
                My refurbished 72 NC Deluxe Pearl Kit
                My early 80's G314LXDC Pearl Snare
                Catalogue Corner Thread
                Restoring and refinishing (vintage) drums
                My Snare build

                Comment


                • #9
                  I certainly don't profess to being an expert in any vintage drums, so it was great to see you post up what you did !

                  Originally posted by Rotarded View Post
                  That SS strainer in it's entirety is consistent with the year of the drum (1976).

                  Hmmm, if I do a search for 1976 Super Sensitives, I get different images for the upper part of the throw off. Some time period "correct" based on catalogues, some not. Confusing much.

                  I am none too sure at the assessment of a "frankendrum". There are both keystone badged (60's) and Blue/Olive (70s) badged wood supersensitives out there. There was a 1973 on eBay not to long ago, and Bun E Carlos has a 60's BDP version.

                  Sadly, Internet searching doesn't show me many references to wood shelled super sensitives.

                  Ludwig did not like to make these as they thought the hardware would choke the drum. But you could special order them, at least for a while. I believe a little research may find that this indeed could be what the OP thought it was
                  I get that, every drum company did custom/special orders. And down the track, it makes it very difficult sometimes to identify a drum.

                  here is a picture of a 1976 Ludalloy Supersensitive

                  Is this your snare?
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]500849[/ATTACH]
                  My revamped Pearl DX kit (now with 8" tom)
                  My refurbished 72 NC Deluxe Pearl Kit
                  My early 80's G314LXDC Pearl Snare
                  Catalogue Corner Thread
                  Restoring and refinishing (vintage) drums
                  My Snare build

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 3pearlkits View Post
                    I certainly don't profess to being an expert in any vintage drums, so it was great to see you post up what you did !
                    I'm no Ludwig expert either, but what I do know is that Ludwig did make some odd drums as special orders, and employees made drums for themselves, and kept no records as far as anyone knows. Also, they reused catalog artwork and pictures over and over, even when the product had changes. The only way to know for certain is to have the drum looked at by WFL III, Bun E., or other well know and knowledgeable collectors, much like i had to do with my 1978 6.5 Acrolite. Even with the authentication, the story/explanation behind the drum was underwhelming.
                    Last edited by Rotarded; 03-09-2017, 08:44 PM.
                    1964 Ludwig Downbeat 6pc
                    1976 Ludwig Stainless Steel 4pc
                    1998 Ayotte Custom "Ray Era" Wood Hoop 5pc

                    Zildjians: A Customs and Vintage As

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Franken-drum as in the shell is a ludwig and the hardware is ludwig, but the hardware and shell are from different series and years. Seems like someone added the hardware to the shell meaning it did not come stock like that.
                      sigpic
                      DESPERATELY SEEKING A MHX BASS DRUM WITH A BB-3 TOM MOUNT IN WINE RED

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They exist. The hardware is date correct No extra holes....

                        The last piece of information I will post. Doubt all you want, but the preponderance of evidence contradicts what has previously been "stated" by others in this thread.

                        Read me:
                        http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/arch...php/t-981.html
                        1964 Ludwig Downbeat 6pc
                        1976 Ludwig Stainless Steel 4pc
                        1998 Ayotte Custom "Ray Era" Wood Hoop 5pc

                        Zildjians: A Customs and Vintage As

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would think this drum would be worth some money to a Ludwig collector. Not that mid-70s is all that collectable, but the 3 ply shell with SS is fairly rare and there are lots of Black Cortex kits out there to match it up with.

                          Comment

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