Greatest Timpanist Ever

[David Hollywood]

^ I'd believe it! That guy is SO good!!!

[tension_bolt]

I can´t believe no one has mentioned Rainer Seegers, the timpanist for the Berlin Philharmonic! Fantastic touch and and excellent musicianship.

As for the chops-discussion going on here, I believe that such a word, which is often associated with speed/ the technical ability to fulfill the demands of the instrument, is not that relevant in this discussion. I agree completely that chops are necessary to become a great drummer/timpanist/percussionist, however I think that all the players mentioned in this thread are way beyond the level where you discuss whether they have good chops or not. Technical ability is just one out of so many things that are required for you to even consider auditioning for a position in a world class orchestra. I think it´s much more interesting to discuss styles and what makes any specific timpanist work so well with their respective orchestras!

When it comes to influence... it all depends on how famous the orchestra is, ya know? I know tons of fantastic timpanist second to none who haven´t been mentioned in this thread just because their orchestra is not world famous, although they could easily hang with them.

[David Hollywood]

I can´t believe no one has mentioned Rainer Seegers, the timpanist for the Berlin Philharmonic! Fantastic touch and and excellent musicianship.

As for the chops-discussion going on here, I believe that such a word, which is often associated with speed/ the technical ability to fulfill the demands of the instrument, is not that relevant in this discussion. I agree completely that chops are necessary to become a great drummer/timpanist/percussionist, however I think that all the players mentioned in this thread are way beyond the level where you discuss whether they have good chops or not. Technical ability is just one out of so many things that are required for you to even consider auditioning for a position in a world class orchestra. I think it´s much more interesting to discuss styles and what makes any specific timpanist work so well with their respective orchestras!

When it comes to influence... it all depends on how famous the orchestra is, ya know? I know tons of fantastic timpanist second to none who haven´t been mentioned in this thread just because their orchestra is not world famous, although they could easily hang with them.

This is an excellent post. Thank you!

[tension_bolt]

No man, thank you! I love these healthy discussions.

[DrummerEH]

When it comes to influence... it all depends on how famous the orchestra is, ya know? I know tons of fantastic timpanist second to none who haven´t been mentioned in this thread just because their orchestra is not world famous, although they could easily hang with them.

True, it's sad that Tim Adams is not more famous, I mean the Pittsburg Symphony is some what world famous but and this is in no way meant to be a slam against him but I think he should be with a better and more famous symphony. But saddly the music world in the end is a business and part of success in business is knowing people. I also know tons of very talented orchestral percussionists, timpanists, solo marimba players, jazz, rock, and latin drum set players, jazz vibraphonists, hand drummers, composers, solo percussionists, and so on that haven't hit the big time because they don't know the people you need to know in order to do so.
But I still think it's possible to take a stab at who the greatest timpanists ever were and yes a lot of my list does come from influence but I've narrowed down to my top 3 (not these timpanists are all retired, I think current players like Tim Adams and Tim Genis are amazing but I think they need to keep in the business a bit longer to truly become the icons that these players were).
3. Vic Firth-Perhaps the most famous player for tweaking parts and changing things, there have been many players who have done this before and after him but he did it in such a stylists way.
2. Saul Goodman-I can't think of any teacher on any instrument that plays any style of music that has had more students become successful musicians. Also his playing was so colorful and he was in some ways a pioneer in getting the timpani to take on so many different roles in the orchestra.
1. Cloyd Duff-I have several sets of recordings of the Beethoven symphonies with some great players on them including, Vic Firth, Donald Koss, Rainer Seegers, Roland Kohloff, some more that slip my mind, and Mr. Duff. I don't know why but when I listen to Duff play on those recordings everything sounds exactly like how it should sound, his part on the 6th symphony is so powerful but he's not over powering the orchestra he just playing it so convictedly, and his part on 9 can almost bring tears to my eyes. What he could do on the instrument was truly amazing.
There's my list for what it's worth.

[David Hollywood]

No man, thank you! I love these healthy discussions.

Me too! I just wish more people would post!

[Marimba6]

How about a discussion about which timpani just aren't worth buying? I'll vote straight up for Ludwig. I don't think they have made a decent product in about 20 years.

One of the groups I play in is currently rehearsing at a middle school. They have a brand new set of Ludwig Hammered Bowls...which produce the most unfocused pitch I've ever heard. The drums seemed to have arrived not even tuned into the standard ranges. After much work with a pull-down gauge and a tuner the bottom 3 drums finally now sit in normal ranges, but still don't sound "clear". The 23" drum was shipped with the high pitch topping out at a D, and now when tuned properly from D-A (or B as Ludwig suggests) the low pitch D is way too floppy. I'm guessing that the head is ruined. Oh, did I mention these timps sound like ***? Maybe I'm just spoiled by using quality instruments like the Adams Professional or the Yamaha TP-6200.

[David Hollywood]

Well, I'll say a few things about this. They still claim there are more Standard Symphonic Ludwig Timpani in use today than all other brands and models combined. This is actually probably true, however, those are not great drums. Ludwig is still by far the most common brand in High Schools and Junior Highs and they play a key role in the history and development of modern drums. They offer drums at a reasonable price and I've found from working with them over the past few years that they offer their customers and reatailers EXCELLENT service.

Also, it's important to note that the Professional Hammered Copper drums are not supposed to sound "clear". If you want that sound, you're better off with smooth copper. The hammering is going to cause the sound to be darker and less focused. Of course, that might not be what you mean... you might mean they sound like junk, so I apologize if I'm not reading your post correctly. I've used a lot of really old Ludwigs in my day and most of them were not that great. I don't think you can say they "aren't worth buying" as they are often the best option, in their price range, for schools or other places on a tight budget. However, I will agree that they are not the best sounding drums and if you're really serious about timpani, it's best to look towards Adams or Yamaha.

[Marimba6]

Allow me to clarify. I have taught in public schools for 16 years. In that time I have used almost all currently available timpani, everything from Ludwig, Yamaha and Adams. Heck, before that I was a percussion buyer in for a large school educational supplier in Texas. I personally sold at least 20 different sets of timpani during that time and often traveled to set them up once on location. I do agree that Ludwig standard series is the most widely used timpani in schools, but I strongly also think that most other manufacturers produce better quality instruments for the price.

When I say "clear" I'm referring to the ability of an instrument to produce a round fundamental pitch. After you set up a new drum into the correct tuning ranges, use a pull-down gauge to have a good starting point and tune around the head using a strobe tuner most drums will pitch-up accurately. Timpani do have a weird overtone series (which is one reason inexperienced players tent to tune sharp) that emphasizes the upper overtones. That is the beauty of the timpani sound. Fundamental pitch with overtones that blend with the ensemble to produce a beautiful sonority. Think about what sets a Grover super overtone triangle apart from a LP triangle...even when played with good technique and an appropriate beater one of them will sound better than the other. Anyway, I'm familiar with good, and in some cases outstanding timpani sounds.

My rant from above has more to do with a brand new console, that arrived in what I considered to be an unusable condition. Heck, if it took me 2 hours with a tuner, pull-down gauge, a block of wood, a timpani key and a regular drum key to even get 3 of those drums to sound decent how in the world is your average 7th grader even supposed to learn how to tune and play that same set of drums? Easy answer...they wont.

Just my $0.02 worth. Sorry for derailing the thread.

Now back to regularly scheduled programming...

[David Hollywood]

No problem! I really liked both of your posts. You make some excellent points. I agree with you that if something is hard for US to set up... how in the world would you expect your average wind player/band director or young percussionist to figure it out? It shouldn't take that long to get a good sound, it does sound like something is wrong with those drums...

[bjeadeh@mac.com]

Great Timpanist, and teacher

Many of these, "Modern", timpanists were taught by the master, Gerald Carlyss. But the greatest in my opinion, Goodman, Duff, Hinger in that order, but only for the US players. I don't know any of the European or South American players. I will put Mr. Firth in the lead for running a successful percussion business, but you gotta remove the pepper grinders from his sales numbers. If you need a guy to do the job right, TODAY, in the US, you gotta call Tafoya.