How to listen to a snare...

[rrfpacker]

I went to GC yesterday to listen to different snares as I would like to expand from my Vision birch and Mapex piccolo. I've done lots of research here and other places and had narrowed down my choices to a Pork Pie Big Black, Pearl Sensitone Aluminum and Ludwig Supralite.

The Sensitone sounded like my Mapex, just a different pitch; no Ludwig to hear and I could not hear what everyone says is good about the Pork Pie. It's got to be my ignorant ears, right? The sales person spent a lot of time with me, as it wasn't very busy, and tried to explain what was happening and why it sounded so good. I just couldn't hear it. Quite a disappointing experience for me as I'd hoped to really hear something different. I had really hoped to hear something profound in the brass snare as opposed to my birch and steel.

Other than doing what I just did, is there a way to know what to listen for? Or do I just keep listening to different snares until I can hear the difference? Thanks

[randdrum]

"It's got to be my ignorant ears, right?"

LOL

If it dosesn't sound good to you or different to you, that is all that you need to know/hear. You have to just keep looking and trying snares. When THE ONE comes along, you will know right away and it won't be subtle. Best of luck

[livingstone]

Testing snares is a tricky business. There is so much that can affect the sound of a given snare. I.e. tuning, heads, snare wires, the room you are in and so on. Given those variables the same snare can sound vastly different with different combinations. I'd say it's almost impossible to do apples to apples with snares. So when testing a snare I'd plan to spend some time tuning it, try the snare wires at different tensions and so on. You mentioned that the salesman spent lots of time with you so perhaps you already walked through those things. Other than that it does take time to develop an ear for the nuances of a snare. Your research will get you in the right ballpark then you just have to decide! Once you get it home you can change heads, mess with tunings and you'll have all kinds of variety.

It sounds like you are set on a metal shell. I own a vintage Gretsch aluminum, very dry tone. I played a sensitone aluminum, very nice snare. I've never liked the sound of steel snares. The pork pie I have also played and really liked it. Brass is generally regarded to be the "warmest" sounding metal shell and I would agree. If I were selecting from those choices I'd go with the pork pie. Good price, and the brass shell is versatile.

If you can't hear the nuance, either wait a while until you develop your ears more and really know what you want to hear or just buy a good snare, experiment and grow into it. If you don't like it down the road you can always sell it.

[hwy 49]

Snares are like women , keep searching till you find the right one

[nickd]

You will actually find a lot of snares of the same dimension and similar material will sound identical. I think it's good to have a deep wood snare for a fatter sound and maybe a 5" deep metal snare for cut.

One of the best snares out there for little money is the chad smith signature by pearl. Great hardware and a 5" shell that doesn't require a bead to stop it from collapsing (must be a fairly thick steel shell 1mm+) To my ears it's sounds bright poppy and cutting, BUT, you can tame this with head choice, moon gel, playing style and other variables. On the other end I have a pearl free floating maple 6.5" deep. It's a bit of a one trick pony to be honest, and it's sound is a boxy ringy 'pong' sound.

Any of the aluminium snares out there are a little bit dry sounding as aluminium is a pretty dull / weak metal anyway (but easy to bend and fold into a drum). I find brass falls into the same category as steel as it's just as dense but not as strong. The main thing is cost and ease of manufacturing.

It's all a case of subtractive EQ, the harder the shell the more high energy is going to bounce around inside. The thinner the shell or the softer and more pourus the material the more highs get absorbed giving the impression there's a boost in the low frequency. A good example of this is a muffler on a exhaust. Birch will sound brighter with less bass because it's doesn't hold anything back, maple is slightly softer so there is a perception it produces more low end. It doesn't matter what wood it is if it is hard and dense.

The thing is this, all these different boutique drums and woods and whatnot all do the same thing. The suspend 2 heads and some snares to make a sound. I think any snare above $200 will get you there and anything over $500 is a matter of personal expression. The truth is no-one actually gives a hoot if you have a brady or a $20 pearl maxwin.

All of this isn't what I've regurgitated from the net, but from personal experience as I buy and sell drums.

My advice every time is the Pearl Sensitone series or the Chad Smith Sig (because you can get them cheap!) I can also tell you this, I owned a Brass Sensitone Elite 14x5.5 and a cheap Pearl Vision Steel 14 x5.5 and with the batter tuned to Bb and the reso tuned to F# both of these drums sounded and played identical and neither had an 'inferior sound'.

More often than not I find myself playing cheap steel generic snares that come with kits, I don't think they're all that pretty with the flimsy pressed tin shell and flaking chrome but they do the job and sound great.

[chilledbongo]

given that it was gc, i question whether anything you heard was even tuned to within anything resembling a sound...snares on the racks at gc are never tuned, ever.....they are the worst sounding drums on the planet, as a rule ....

maybe the sales rep took them down and spent time tuning ... maybe he didnt .... it's hard to buy a drum like a snare without hearing all of its tuning range, especially if you are just shopping in general and dont want a specific model.....

also, as you noted, they didnt even have a ludwig supralite which does not surprise me... they dont have 99.9% of the snare drums in production....

you are almost better off shopping by youtube with decent earphones....

[Kiwi]

Snares are like women , keep searching till you find the right one

I'd suggest one of them is easier to trade in than the other.

[scooterdavis]

Try a Ludalloy supra, 6.5x14. I bought one a couple months ago and all I can say is WOW! I guess there's a reason why it's so popular. sometime down the road I'll likely pic up a bronze supra, as well as a black beauty; they're just outstanding instruments!!

[rrfpacker]

Great responses, thank you everyone.

To answer a couple of you, yes, the saleman did spend time tuning each snare...and we tried 5 or 6. All the steel and aluminum sounded the same to me...different pitch, but the attack seemed the same and I already have that with my Mapex steel piccolo. The only brass one was the Pork Pie and I just couldn't hear the "brass" difference. Salesman did his best to explain and was very helpful: even said to buy it and take it home and if I don't like it bring it back. I know that's their policy but I'm not ready for that.

And to answer another question, no I'm not set on a metal snare. I just hadn't heard an aluminum or brass one so that was my focus. The salesman, who plays in a metal band, says he uses a maple snare. We looked but couldn't find one at GC in the snare section.

All of that being said, from what I have experienced as a new drummer, is that I like a nice "fat" "wet" sound as my main sound and I don't like too much snare sound. I guessing that isn't so much a shell difference but a need to tighten the wires.

[nickd]

This is probably the best video on the net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-27k...EQOhJphEfwmpzQ


Followed by this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjFi2...EQOhJphEfwmpzQ


Take the vintage brass snare (in the first video) with tube lugs, free floating snare, single flanged brass hoops, crimped snare beds and 80 years of wear and tear metallurgy mojo - then compare it to the chad smith sig snare of the second video (right at the beginning) and apart from being tuned maybe a semitone apart, they sound to my ears almost identical, close enough infact that in a live situation apart from yourself would anyone notice?

One thing I have noticed that may seem trivial is that I prefer the snares that have no bead rolled into the edge of the drum to provide strength to thinner shells. All of the shells in the video with rolled beads seem to have a slightly drier sustain with a long decay (or the part we think of as undesirable 'ring') So maybe a heavier gauge metal shell is the sound I prefer?

[rrfpacker]

This is probably the best video on the net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-27k...EQOhJphEfwmpzQ


Followed by this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjFi2...EQOhJphEfwmpzQ


Take the vintage brass snare (in the first video) with tube lugs, free floating snare, single flanged brass hoops, crimped snare beds and 80 years of wear and tear metallurgy mojo - then compare it to the chad smith sig snare of the second video (right at the beginning) and apart from being tuned maybe a semitone apart, they sound to my ears almost identical, close enough infact that in a live situation apart from yourself would anyone notice?

One thing I have noticed that may seem trivial is that I prefer the snares that have no bead rolled into the edge of the drum to provide strength to thinner shells. All of the shells in the video with rolled beads seem to have a slightly drier sustain with a long decay (or the part we think of as undesirable 'ring') So maybe a heavier gauge metal shell is the sound I prefer?

Just listened to both of those today!! Chad Smith Signature does sound good and I'm leaning toward the Sensitone Aluminum. Have to go listen again.

[PYRRHO]

Op... the differences from one drum to another are usually very subtle, and often felt more than heard. You will almost always need a mic too... in order to capture the nuances. A human ear just isn't going to hear 3 feet away, what a mic hears 3 inches away. What's more... two of the biggest factors in how a drum sounds is where it's played and who tuned it. In your case, all of the drums you listened to were in the same room and tuned by the same guy...and presumably played in close proximity to one another. Drums like cymbals, vibrate sympathetically when played very near each other, so if you demo'd these drums on the Guitar Center display rack, you were hearing a little of every drum when you played just one... makes it very difficult to pick up on the minute differences.

[dudewuttheheck]

Op... the differences from one drum to another are usually very subtle, and often felt more than heard. You will almost always need a mic too... in order to capture the nuances. A human ear just isn't going to hear 3 feet away, what a mic hears 3 inches away. What's more... two of the biggest factors in how a drum sounds is where it's played and who tuned it. In your case, all of the drums you listened to were in the same room and tuned by the same guy...and presumably played in close proximity to one another. Drums like cymbals, vibrate sympathetically when played very near each other, so if you demo'd these drums on the Guitar Center display rack, you were hearing a little of every drum when you played just one... makes it very difficult to pick up on the minute differences.

Very good post. I agree that feel is amazingly important to a snare drum. That is how I fell in love with the snare drums I have owned, not just from the sound. Personally I don't choose snares by letting others play them in front of me.

[nickd]

Well if you like the Aluminium sensitone, save yourself some money and buy a used Ludwig acrolite, or the blacrolite which has some serious bling. I can tel you that having owned both they sound EXACTLY the same, the only noticible difference is that the pearl without a doubt has better hardware.

/acrolite


For recording the acro is hard to beat if you are close miking. However it can get a little boxy in the mix in a live setting; that 'ring' you get from a drum is a bit like a presence control on an amp. That's why steel and brass snares win for live settings, but can be a bit rowdy for close miking without a splodge of tape.