Official rant about triggers and metal drummers.

[MadDrummer4Life]

Why? That doesn't make any sense at all, it's like saying that if you want your drivers license, you have to start off driving a Ford Model T from 1915, because it's the foundation of modern automobiles.

I think drummers should strive to have a basic understanding of as many styles as they can, but it's not a requirement to be a good drummer. That means that jazz drummers should try their hand at metal, and vice versa. However, there's no reason not to start with playing the style of music you want to play (hell, if I had to learn jazz before I could start playing along with my rock albums, I wouldn't have bothered with drumming at all).

agreed. idk why i said that. i totally agree. thats what i did. what i meant to say is that at one point, you should learn jazz. i started playing zeppelin, other classic rock bands and any metal song that didnt have a double bass in it. then i listened to jazz and saw how influencial it must have been on a lot of drummers today

[Naigewron]

listen, jazz is the foundation of modern drumming. if you want to be a drummer, thats the first style of music you learn. then you move on to heavier things if thats your goal.

Why? That doesn't make any sense at all, it's like saying that if you want your drivers license, you have to start off driving a Ford Model T from 1915, because it's the foundation of modern automobiles.

I think drummers should strive to have a basic understanding of as many styles as they can, but it's not a requirement to be a good drummer. That means that jazz drummers should try their hand at metal, and vice versa. However, there's no reason not to start with playing the style of music you want to play (hell, if I had to learn jazz before I could start playing along with my rock albums, I wouldn't have bothered with drumming at all).

[User.Name]

In my experience the use of triggers has usually been more of a business decision than a drumming decision. If the band, management and promotor feel more comfortable, so be it. Their reasons may be many.

[MadDrummer4Life]

Yeah, well - I don't see much of a queue of jazz drummers learning to play metal to broaden their horizons.

listen, jazz is the foundation of modern drumming. if you want to be a drummer, thats the first style of music you learn. then you move on to heavier things if thats your goal.

[MadDrummer4Life]

I don't think using bass drum triggers should be considered cheating. What I do think is that in cases where it's used in certain applications (specifically "extreme" metal) it gives a false sense of power that isn't really there. Guys like Vinnie Paul, Tommy Lee, and many others use triggers in live situations and in the studio. Not because they play so fast that they wouldn't be heard without them, but because it's a quick fix to get a solid sound. But I think something is lost in the translation....

....Which brings me to "extreme" metal drummers. To build your entire foot technique around the neccesity of needing triggers is like having a guitarist that can play so incredibly fast, but if you put them on an acoustic guitar you could never hear what they were doing even if you put the most sensnsitive microphone in the world up to their acoustic. Or like someone who can play really fast on a keyboard, but only on a b3 organ with no velocity.

Firstly.. when you refer to your genre as extreme, where do you go from there? what's more extreme than extreme (unless u count the band?). I think the whole faster=better kinda gives alot of new drummers the wrong idea. They blast through as many variations of a single stroke exercise like a horse with blinders on. Leaving things like groove, feel and dynamics to the wayside for the sake of focusing on speed alone. Then in the end their only claim to fame that sets them apart from thousands of other drummers in the same genre is how fast they can do it...which one would presume leads to 360bpm+ videos on youtube. It's a bit like watching somebody build a ship in a bottle...becoming bored with the process, so taking it to the next step and learning how to build hundreds of them in hundreds of bottles at record speed.

you have taken my thoughts and layed them out in a way i never would've been able to. you couldn't be more correct.

like in the song "animal in me" by motley crue on their latest album "saints of los angeles", theres a part where lee uses a trigger. it sounds great and makes a decent effect on the listener. so i guess, you should only use a trigger if its worth it.

also, people, like one of my best friends, think its all about speed. i've tried to tell him, i'd like to see that guy use his speed into making something that sounds good. here are 3 videos. the first is with someone who is quite fast at the drums but nothing else, one with someone who is fast at the drums and makes it sound good, and one with the same drummer giving his 2 cents about speed & drumming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTVn_voSi3Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTUl-AMoJpU

(watch the whole thing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM6bDkP37wA&NR=1

[master#296]

i know its not directly related to what you guys are talking about, but daniel erlandsson has the best trigger sound in my opinion. of course he mics his kicks aswell but it still sounds awesome.

[Naigewron]

Another thing is that most of the people that start out playing hardcore can ONLY play that style of music for most of their drumming career. It's a lot harder for them to learn how to play the softer stuff like jazz, blues, funk, etc...

Lack of versatility is an equally big problem in all genres. Most jazz players can't play a solid rock beat with any sort of conviction and power, let alone metal.

[Jimmers]

Another thing is that most of the people that start out playing hardcore can ONLY play that style of music for most of their drumming career. It's a lot harder for them to learn how to play the softer stuff like jazz, blues, funk, etc...

Yeah, well - I don't see much of a queue of jazz drummers learning to play metal to broaden their horizons.

[pearlreference7101]

I think the whole faster=better kinda gives alot of new drummers the wrong idea. They blast through as many variations of a single stroke exercise like a horse with blinders on. Leaving things like groove, feel and dynamics to the wayside for the sake of focusing on speed alone.

I totally agree. I have a lot of friends who think that the only talented drummers out there are the ones who play screamo/death metal music. I think that it does take quite a bit of talent to play that style, but when you are a beginning drummer, it's a bad idea to start out trying to play that way. Before someone can master double pedal, at least in my opinion for most people, they should start out with just a single pedal. A lot of people think they can just jump in to playing the drums and be able to play hardcore metal. In most cases, it doesn't work that way. Another thing is that most of the people that start out playing hardcore can ONLY play that style of music for most of their drumming career. It's a lot harder for them to learn how to play the softer stuff like jazz, blues, funk, etc...

Again, this is just what I have observed from watching a lot of young drummers try to enter the hardcore metal scene from the very beginning.

[rtbanger]

things that make you go ummmmmm?

Triggers are a tool just like any other tool you can use a hammer to build a church or smash in a guys skull, again the real test is if a musician can reproduce live what was so well crafted in the studio. Todays audience expects that clarity and quality and without the aid of our little electronic toys.. compressors on the mikes etc.... it is impossible. The flip side of that is no audience wants to see a guy standing behind a keyboard playing samples and midi files. Early NIN shows were/is a perfect example of that. You need musicians not just electronic toys. Having said the the use of triggers is invaluable, for example, on the road going from an indoor venue with aircondition to the next day in Texas an outdoor venue and 105 degrees in the shade is a straight acoutstic drummers worst nightmare. I have seen many killer sounding kits "live" that no matter what was done couldn't get a decent "studio" sound. My Pearl RTs are miked, compressed, and mixed with my Hartke\DM5s and EQed leaves me with a basically bulletproof answer to playing ANY gig that fits into TWO rolling travelling cases I can pull behind me. (only have to pay the excess weight to get them on a plane)

[Dave Hall]

Triggers allow you to change the sound of each drum easily. Different snare etc. They also allow you to quantize the notes. A sloppy take or inhuman double bass beats can be quantized to a gnats ***, or after locking it in, add human feel, or accents etc. I'm sure this is a huge cost effective advantage for the recording industry. Bands can use their drummer that blows in the studio, cut time getting solid takes, and getting a great drum sound which takes forever sometimes. I don't use triggers, I have used them in the past, but I didn't like it. My sound suffers a bit cutting through the mix, but at least it's my sound and an honest take. I do think a well produced cd with a great triggered drum sound sounds great, probably better than what it would have sounded like without them...sometimes.

[cornwallace]

Triggers can be necessary for extreme music, but the same sound presence can be achieved with mics, and even have a better result. This might cause hundreds of pages of arguing but not my problem - the triggers on Joey Jordison's kit for Slipknot shows, for example, is purely for monitoring. The front of house sound is purely microphones. Apart from the Sub Bass 404 sound, everything you hear at the show is Joey mic'd. FACT. Bet you didnt know that I think this might be the same for a few metal drummers.

[codyblast]

i use triggers so i can play faster

they are little motors that attach to my pedals

[ytse jam]

Best triggered drum sound i've ever witnessed personally was when seeing SiKTh live for the second time.

Dan Foord's whole kit (I'm pretty damn certain), was hybrid triggered. The kick had so much presence in the live mix and the drums had a lovely rounded sound to them that just sat like the records. It was quality.

Although one of the support bands used a trigger on the kick too and it was the worst thing i've ever heard... a night of two extremes!

[dudme]

I trigger and mic like 50% of the time i play. But its true little rubber pads would look strange.

Back in the 80s a lot of the New Wave bands did that with the Simmons kits. They would play the eDrums. It kinda became a trademark of the style of music, so it started getting associated with them.