Official rant about triggers and metal drummers.

[Ionei]

Using a microphone is cheating, one should be able to hear the power of the singer without microphones!

Using electric guitars, and especially distortion pedals, is cheating, since they give the guitar player more power than he really has!

Playing electronic keyboards is cheating! They allow the player to access different sounds from a single instrument (and maybe even several sounds at once *gasp*)

Using plastic drum heads is cheating! They sound much better and more full than animal skin!

Using steel guitar strings is cheating! They sound so much more crisp and loud than cat guts!

Using drum sticks is cheating! Drummers should only be allowed to use their hands (and maybe rocks)!

Using stage lights is cheating! It makes the band look cooler than they are. Everyone should play by candlelight only!

Using any form of EQ, delay, reverb, compression, filters and other effects is DEFINITELY cheating, since it makes every instrument sound better, more powerful, tighter and cooler than it really is.

So, to conclude, every band should play with their bare hands on hollowed out tree trunks. But don't use a metal tool to hollow out the trunk, because that makes the job easier than it really is. Use your nails, like nature intended.

Ohh god i lol'ed

[HHXplorer]

I agree with you here. Technology is great and it allows a lot of cool things to be done with music. If technology helps you achieve a sound that you want I say go for it. The only thing that I don't like is when a band can't do half the things on their CD in a live show. I have heard some bands who don't even sound like the same band when you compare a CD and their live show. I have a lot of respect for bands that can put on a really great live show and actually play all the parts they have on their CDs.

*cough* Dragonforce *cough*

[bill f]

What exactly would be the benefits of NOT using triggers in Extreme Metal? It's not like there's a lot of dynamics going on. It's pretty well "balls to the wall" at full force at all times, isn't it?

[ResonantAscendancy]

Speaking as a drummer from an "extreme" metal band, I really feel as if the majority of you have got the wrong impression about it all. Whilst I can't really comment on triggers (because I don't use them), I can certainly say that you are wrong about what goes on inside the mind of a metal drummer.

First of all, it's not a competition to see who's fastest and no, I don't think I'm "bad arse" because of the way I can blast. When I'm writing drums to a song, I'm thinking about what is most suitable for the music. I'm not trying to show off, break boundaries or anything like that - I'm playing to the music, which is something that many other drummers in countless other styles (and plenty of members of this forum) struggle to do.

Some of you may scoff at this comment, but when I'm blasting or playing straight double bass, I am effectively in the pocket, just in a very different sense to what it's normally considered.

I think it really just comes down to people having the wrong impression of what it's all about. It's the music I love playing and listening to, simple as that.

this.

[Joey Temper]

Quote: I like triggers and a lot of drummers also use them when they do not have their own personal sound engineer as well. There are many reasons drummers use triggers. Some are the same and others are not. To each his own.

one thing that pissed me off is that joey jordenson is loaded, he could get the best techs in the world. yet reasentaly he has been using triggers on that relly nice masterworks, when as far as i know he didnt before.

Joey Jordison only use ddrum triggers and a DM5 purely for monitoring on stage. He use mics for the PA according his drum tech on the last edition on RHYTHM magazine.

[techristian]

It is difficult to get the right dynamics with triggers. No feeling or accents with the feet.

Dan

[GTHO_PhaseIII]

It is difficult to get the right dynamics with triggers. No feeling or accents with the feet.

Dan

However, as has already been pointed out, those things are not as important in extreme metal.

[KernowInferno]

All this *****ing about what you should and shouldn't use is just annoying. Guys, its music. You can use anything available to you. You can hit a baked bean can if it sounds good to you. If you want to use electronics or programme in all the drums, or even..... (gasp) .....triggers - anything goes. Use any tool available to you that you want to use to get the sound you want to achieve.

[ryctor]

If you are going to use triggers, why don't leave the wooden kick, or kicks at home, be more truthful to the audience, and just bring the rubber pads to the stage?
I agree that electronic drums are a great tool for certain situations, but to make believe the audience that the sound that is coming from the PA is in fact the sound of those kicks, is totally dishonest.

I think a musician should keep his integrity by not doing this.
I mean, mixing the sound from a mic and a trigger sound is alright, as is DSPs, is a treatment of the real sound of the drum to make it more adequate for the kind of music being played, Jazz, metal, any kind.

Dave Weckl, my hero, far from being a Metal Drummer, uses electronic samples to mix them with his acoustic sound, in order to get the desired effect. In his first solo album, this is clearly exposed, and the result is brilliant! But always there is a mix of the acoustic and the electronic sound, never a mere substitution.
There is no way to achieve certain sounds acoustically, so its a nice tool to get the desired sound in the given situation.

Nothing more versatile than an hybrid kit, like Mr. Peart uses, a nice DW, and a full electronic kit mixed together, nice, innovative, creative, a good example of using technology, by keeping the integrity as a drummer and being true to his audience.
I saw Stewart Copeland's kit, his trademark snare drum sound is legendary, and in his last tour with The Police, you can see his snare micked and triggered, this way he can acomplish a snare sound or sounds that just with mics, would be impossible. That is cool, creative, innovative, awesome. As you can see, I am not againt the trigger thing, it has its purpose and place in the sound world, But...

You do not see any of these Greats, making believe their sound comes entirely from their acoustic kits, when all the sound coming from the PA its entirely artificial, that is being dishonest, its a make believe.

Again, why not leaving the whole kit at home, just bring the pads?
There are ways to achieve a clear kick sound, with nice click, definition, for fast metal.
I have even seen drummer setting up a second kick, just for the looks, it does not even have a pedal on it, JJ was one of them, Tommy Lee another.

One of the greats questions of all time for us drummers was, How does this guy get to sound like that? This was watching a drummer with his acoustic kit, of course, one immediately though about tuning, heads, mic techniques, DSP, gating, compressing. That was the old school way, the hard way, one needed to study sound engineering, DSP, mic techniques, tuning and muffling techniques, old tricks like the old quarter coin taped to the beater to get the click. Triggers took all that away!. Its easier, yes, but is not for real.
Think about this, how many piano players do you see playing in a Big nice Grand piano, or a nice Upright, and making believe that their sound is coming from it, and in some way using samples to get the artificial midi sound to be the one heard by the audience? Or you either use the real thing, or you use a keyboard, or a few of them!

Nothing wrong with that, just they have no intention in making believe that their sound is acoustic, when its not. They are not trying to replace one sound with another, they use or one or the other, but never they try to convince you that their sound is coming from the acoustic instrument, when the sound being heard is electronic purely, and they are proud of that!

If the acoustic sound is not going to take part of the final sound, leave the acoustic instrument at home, be true to your audience, if you choose electronic, use electronic, but to make believe an acoustic drum is making all the sound or part of it, when the acoustic sound do not take part of the final sound at all, is a fantasy, is a lie, and that is cheating!
The Ryctor!

[Jimmers]

What?

[future lars]

If you are going to use triggers, why don't leave the wooden kick, or kicks at home, be more truthful to the audience, and just bring the rubber pads to the stage?...

If the acoustic sound is not going to take part of the final sound, leave the acoustic instrument at home, be true to your audience, if you choose electronic, use electronic, but to make believe an acoustic drum is making all the sound or part of it, when the acoustic sound do not take part of the final sound at all, is a fantasy, is a lie, and that is cheating!
The Ryctor!

FAIL. Who cares.

[Zach94]

If you are going to use triggers, why don't leave the wooden kick, or kicks at home, be more truthful to the audience, and just bring the rubber pads to the stage?
I agree that electronic drums are a great tool for certain situations, but to make believe the audience that the sound that is coming from the PA is in fact the sound of those kicks, is totally dishonest.

I think a musician should keep his integrity by not doing this.
I mean, mixing the sound from a mic and a trigger sound is alright, as is DSPs, is a treatment of the real sound of the drum to make it more adequate for the kind of music being played, Jazz, metal, any kind.

Does it really matter to you? A visual show is very important for any band, and saying that they should have to sacrifice this because its untrue is not right. Should we take down the PA because i lie to the audience that our band is that loud. Should singers sing without a mic because they aren't really that loud. What about guitar players with effects, that's not really how those guitars sound, is that "illegal" too?

In the end, i don't care. I don't use triggers because i don't have any reason to. If you want to to get a better sound/ease of setup that's fine by me. If you play a 8pc dbl bass kit and use it like a 4 pc that's fine with me too. If the sound that the audience hears is good music to them, and the show they see keeps them entertained and coming back, then what's the harm?

[ryctor]

FAIL. Who cares.

Well, Lars Ulrich being the ultimate cheater, when he is not even the one playing in some of his albums, it has come to a point, like someone said, who cares?
No one even cares if its your drum what is making the sound you hear, or is the sound of a module, when still there is a wooden kick on stage, who cares, right?
Its all about how you look, that is why drummers trigger their kicks, the rubber pad do not look as cool as the real kick.
Who cares if that is not you in the recording, but another better drummer> As long as people thinks its you, who cares?
Have you seen Lars playing live?
Its a shame!
Long live the looks, the fake sounds, real musicians are out! Appearance is all that matters!
Artificial sounds rule!

[ryctor]

Does it really matter to you? A visual show is very important for any band, and saying that they should have to sacrifice this because its untrue is not right. Should we take down the PA because i lie to the audience that our band is that loud. Should singers sing without a mic because they aren't really that loud. What about guitar players with effects, that's not really how those guitars sound, is that "illegal" too?

In the end, i don't care. I don't use triggers because i don't have any reason to. If you want to to get a better sound/ease of setup that's fine by me. If you play a 8pc dbl bass kit and use it like a 4 pc that's fine with me too. If the sound that the audience hears is good music to them, and the show they see keeps them entertained and coming back, then what's the harm?

As my post said, sound treatment, is very different than sound substitution, DSP, FXs, mics, PAs, they are tool to process the original sound, to get a better one. The original sound is always present, the cords of the guitar are always vibrating, their sound is always being picked up, and then processed, the vocalist is always singing,
What you are saying is that, if the singer is not really singing, and what you hear is a backing track, that is ok with you because what is important is the Show?
OMG!
Find out the audience reaction when they have find out that a singer is lip singing in a live show! People do not like to be cheated!
Do what you want, I am jusyt saying, integrity should be part of being a musician, is something that has being lost, and its a shame!
Good luck!

[Zach94]

As my post said, sound treatment, is very different than sound substitution, DSP, FXs, mics, PAs, they are tool to process the original sound, to get a better one. The original sound is always present, the cords of the guitar are always vibrating, their sound is always being picked up, and then processed, the vocalist is always singing,
What you are saying is that, if the singer is not really singing, and what you hear is a backing track, that is ok with you because what is important is the Show?
OMG!
Find out the audience reaction when they have find out that a singer is lip singing in a live show! People do not like to be cheated!
Do what you want, I am jusyt saying, integrity should be part of being a musician, is something that has being lost, and its a shame!
Good luck!

I think you're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand. And i think that people should be able to do whatever they'd like to live. If they want to lipsink and be humiliated in front of an audience and make for a not very interesting show, go for it.

Basically i'm saying somewhere you're drawing a line, and i don't think there should be rules like that in music. Let people decide what they value in a band/performance. If somebody doesn't like a band because they use triggers, so they don't listen to them, that's fine. but, saying that bands should not be able to use triggers because you don't like the idea of them is wrong, IMO. What is the difference in the end between a mic picking up vibrating air off of the drum and going through a rack of effects or a trigger picking up the the vibrating head and using the ORIGINAL DRUM's movement to trigger a new sound?

Long live the looks, the fake sounds, real musicians are out! Appearance is all that matters!

this is why people go to see DJ's, or rap with a backing track, or bands that use backing tracks. But the reason its false is because people still go to jazz clubs, and blues clubs and to small show's like i played last night, and big metal shows (triggers and all). People are free to make whatever music they like through whatever means, and people are free to like/dislike music for whatever reason.