Official rant about triggers and metal drummers.

[GTHO_PhaseIII]

Most of these shows have 3-5 bands on them. There simply just isn't time to get that near perfect sound.

This is another excellent point. At most gigs I play, we're given 15 minutes changeover time, which also includes the sound check. Anything after that eats into the set. Triggers are a big time saver, especially when there are 4 other bands sharing the stage with you.

[kayaun]

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ogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaog aboogaogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaogaboogaogab oogaogabooga

This.

[dale w miller]

This is not an athletic competition so I don't think any of it is cheating as long as I like the final sound. Some of the speeds that are accomplished today would not be capable on the pedals of 50 years ago, let alone 80 years ago. Is that cheating too?

The only problem I have when it comes to technology & music is it a lot of the times sterilizes it and it also not capable of being accomplished live.

[dudme]

I look at triggers the same way I do electronic drums, keyboards and electric guitars. They are not acoustic, they all make music, and they're all good.

[undrig]

This is not an athletic competition so I don't think any of it is cheating as long as I like the final sound. Some of the speeds that are accomplished today would not be capable on the pedals of 50 years ago, let alone 80 years ago. Is that cheating too?

The only problem I have when it comes to technology & music is it a lot of the times sterilizes it and it also not capable of being accomplished live.

I agree about technology being used as a crutch. Look at what happened to Kayne recently. They tried to accuse him of lip synching his songs live...Really what it was, is that he was singing along to a backing track of the same vocals completely autotuned to perfection. When the notes came that were too high for him to hit, he simply didn't sing at all and let the backing track handle it....problem was....the backing track volume was at a much lower level compared to his actual vocals, so it was really obvious.

It just gets me because now the industry is using tricks most people aren't even aware exist. I don't think the bass drum triggering thing equates much into this. I think most people who DON'T play drums fail to realize that if those triggers were taken off the kick drums it would sound like bunnies having sex inside of it.

I don't think playing things something with ease on an axis pedal that you can't pull off on a speed king from the ice age is cheating. That's just a technological advancement in the way pedals are made to go with what somebody is already physically capable of. whereas triggers are giving a false sense of power that isn't really there with the dynamic level.

Seems as tho most people using triggers do so with one dynamic level (as loud as possible) whereas it's very possible to use triggers that have dozens of velocity levels. I've hooked my buddy's electronic kit to my pc with either drumkit from hell or fxpansions bfd loaded onto it and when I hit the kick pad softly it sounds like a 22" ludwig vistalite kickdrum being struck very softly, and when I smack it, it sounds like the same ludwig vistalite being hammered...and all the dynamic levels inbetween of course. Alot of the roland brains i've heard simply play the same sample at a quiet or louder volume. I think the ddrum brains do it the right way if im not mistaken. Takes alot of room for samples on the board either way. I think all my BFD libraries and DFH combine to like 100gb spread over dozens of dvds. That would solve the sound quality and time constraints in a live gig situation while not compromising a dynamic level. I can't think of anyone i've ever heard doing it though. Even tuning two kick drums is easier than setting up a friggin laptop to run bfd or dfh in a live situation and having it run low latency with a good soundcard in asio. And even if you've gotten that far, you'll wanna be using a mac for this. I'd never trust microsoft to handle any live show.

[MAP1974]

Triggers are common is other types of music besides metal. I am currently playing in a country band, and I was pushed into using triggers by my lead singer. We run everything through our IEMs and it allows us to be a lot quieter on stage.

I still use a pure acoustic kit w/mics for larger venues, but the triggered kit works well for smaller places. It also allows for a multitude of other percussion sounds, kit sounds etc., not practical with an acoustic kit.

Just my .02

[Wickedrhythm]

personally, i think when used properly triggers are acceptable (especially if your drums lack the tone of the almighty pearl)
but my biggest quarrel is(are) Blast Beats, there are much more creative grooves and patters one could use in metal.
undrig is right about the whole wrong impression thing, i saw a 15 y.o. all he could do was blast beat, nothing else, man when i was 15 i was learning how to read music and count in 6/8, but thats the difference in starting drumming to play grindcore, or just to play.

But to each his own, I just wont have a whole heck of a lot of respect for the guys who think their BA for playing double bass triggs at 300bpm but not being able to do much else.
whatev i guess

I also have little respect for the ones who rely entirely on "omgz blast beatz" to give the crowd the impression of, "whoa, he must be good"; when in actuality the kid doesn't even know how to groove, much less show general musical talent. I also find that many of these younger players' blasting techniques are entirely wrong, at that.

[Metalman75]

Quote: I like triggers and a lot of drummers also use them when they do not have their own personal sound engineer as well. There are many reasons drummers use triggers. Some are the same and others are not. To each his own.

one thing that pissed me off is that joey jordenson is loaded, he could get the best techs in the world. yet reasentaly he has been using triggers on that relly nice masterworks, when as far as i know he didnt before.

[GTHO_PhaseIII]

I also have little respect for the ones who rely entirely on "omgz blast beatz" to give the crowd the impression of, "whoa, he must be good"; when in actuality the kid doesn't even know how to groove, much less show general musical talent. I also find that many of these younger players' blasting techniques are entirely wrong, at that.

Did you bother to read my earlier post? I've never met a drummer in my local scene who thinks like that and no one in the crowd thinks like that either. Even when I've spoken to and been given advice from guys who are up there with the worlds fastest, that mentality is non-existent.

[codyblast]

triggers in extreme metal should not be, and usually are not used for volume issues

they are used for clarity issues, and ease of mixing issues. Ever seen how long it takes to dial a trigger in on the board? its very easy.

Also, a lot of clubs and sound guys dont have two bass drum mics. And even if they do, its hard to get that super clear kick drum sound that comes with triggers when your playing above 210 bpm.

[drumdevil31]

[QUOTE]Did you bother to read my earlier post? I've never met a drummer in my local scene who thinks like that and no one in the crowd thinks like that either. Even when I've spoken to and been given advice from guys who are up there with the worlds fastest, that mentality is non-existent.

thats your scene...cool, north west US, triggers (90%) of the time are used solely for the purpose of blast beats, and i have met many drummers, young and old, jazz to thrash that agree with the respect and talent thing

[Naigewron]

Using a microphone is cheating, one should be able to hear the power of the singer without microphones!

Using electric guitars, and especially distortion pedals, is cheating, since they give the guitar player more power than he really has!

Playing electronic keyboards is cheating! They allow the player to access different sounds from a single instrument (and maybe even several sounds at once *gasp*)

Using plastic drum heads is cheating! They sound much better and more full than animal skin!

Using steel guitar strings is cheating! They sound so much more crisp and loud than cat guts!

Using drum sticks is cheating! Drummers should only be allowed to use their hands (and maybe rocks)!

Using stage lights is cheating! It makes the band look cooler than they are. Everyone should play by candlelight only!

Using any form of EQ, delay, reverb, compression, filters and other effects is DEFINITELY cheating, since it makes every instrument sound better, more powerful, tighter and cooler than it really is.

So, to conclude, every band should play with their bare hands on hollowed out tree trunks. But don't use a metal tool to hollow out the trunk, because that makes the job easier than it really is. Use your nails, like nature intended.

[Grom]

Using a microphone is cheating, one should be able to hear the power of the singer without microphones!

Using electric guitars, and especially distortion pedals, is cheating, since they give the guitar player more power than he really has!

Playing electronic keyboards is cheating! They allow the player to access different sounds from a single instrument (and maybe even several sounds at once *gasp*)

Using plastic drum heads is cheating! They sound much better and more full than animal skin!

Using steel guitar strings is cheating! They sound so much more crisp and loud than cat guts!

Using drum sticks is cheating! Drummers should only be allowed to use their hands (and maybe rocks)!

Using stage lights is cheating! It makes the band look cooler than they are. Everyone should play by candlelight only!

Using any form of EQ, delay, reverb, compression, filters and other effects is DEFINITELY cheating, since it makes every instrument sound better, more powerful, tighter and cooler than it really is.

So, to conclude, every band should play with their bare hands on hollowed out tree trunks. But don't use a metal tool to hollow out the trunk, because that makes it easier than it really is. Use your nails, like nature intended.

A fine post.

[GTHO_PhaseIII]

thats your scene...cool, north west US, triggers (90%) of the time are used solely for the purpose of blast beats, and i have met many drummers, young and old, jazz to thrash that agree with the respect and talent thing

That's all well and good mate, but all I'm asking then is that you don't stereotype everyone in the metal genre just because of a few posers.

[livingstone]

This is not an athletic competition so I don't think any of it is cheating as long as I like the final sound. Some of the speeds that are accomplished today would not be capable on the pedals of 50 years ago, let alone 80 years ago. Is that cheating too?

The only problem I have when it comes to technology & music is it a lot of the times sterilizes it and it also not capable of being accomplished live.

I agree with you here. Technology is great and it allows a lot of cool things to be done with music. If technology helps you achieve a sound that you want I say go for it. The only thing that I don't like is when a band can't do half the things on their CD in a live show. I have heard some bands who don't even sound like the same band when you compare a CD and their live show. I have a lot of respect for bands that can put on a really great live show and actually play all the parts they have on their CDs.