Honestly...Breakage?

[Penguin[22's]]

So, I've been absent from the PDF for a bit, seeing as I was getting along fine with all my drum equipment, and had hardly anything but information to give away...

Until now...

Recently I discovered two small cracks along the lathe in my 17" Zildjian A Thin Crash. I've noticed for about a month that the sustain had absolutely disappeared from the cymbal, even though it's beautiful tone was still present. The thing that bothers me most is that I've been playing with the proper technique...and by that I mean loosely hanging cymbals, glancing blows in a downward motion (stick parallel to cymbal position), and lastly...I haven't been hitting them that hard....

I know it's possible for a manufacturer defect to cause the crack, but would it have taken the full 9 months for the defect to surface, because I've read in the past that they usually show up within the first couple weeks. The only other thing I can figure is the transport of the cymbals even though they are in the original bags (no metal-on-metal) while inside the starter Zildjian cymbal bag. Aside from playing, I've done nothing short of babying my three pro-line cymbals, and now that one has cracked I'm wondering what I can do to prevent the others.

Also, if I don't possess the original receipt, seeing as it was a gift, what would be the best way to go about getting it replaced, if any? Any information on the subject would be helpful...keeping a low-income budget in-mind, as I would love nothing more than to invest in an SKB Rolling Cymbal Vault, but barely have enough to get what I do.

You've helped me in the past, so thanks in advance guys.

PS: No information on how to stop cracks from spreading, as most of the information I've seen on these have involved shop tools and further damaging the cymbal, which I have no intention of doing.

[jddrummer666]

Dude I've had many Zildjian A's, A customs and Z customs in the past and they all broke. Seems like Zildjians are notorious for cracking at the end or even near the bell. If you've only had the cymbal for 9 months you're in luck. All Zildjians have a 1 year manufacture warranty, regardless of if it was a gift or not. Maybe pop in GC and ask them since they're Zildjian dealers.

Unfortunately once a cymbal cracks there's nothing you can do to reverse it. All you can really do is repair it in hopes of preventing it from cracking further. People say to drill a hole at the end of the crack and then take metal sheers and trace guitar pick shaped chunks and cut them out of the cymbal. Really sucks though man, after doing this repair to the cymbal it still sounds kind of flat and lifeless. It's a shame that these cymbals keep breaking even with playing proper technique.

[PYRRHO]

Cracks resulting from a defect in manufacturing manifest within a few hours to a few weeks of regular play. Your cymbal cracked because of something you're doing wrong...likely overplaying. Overplaying has nothing to do with technique, and only a little to do with how hard you hit. If you strike a cymbal repeatedly...every 8th-note of every measure of every song...if you constantly play a cymbal at it's dynamic ceiling...it will fail in short order...and that my friend is the very definition of "over playing"...constantly trying to pull more sound from a cymbal than it's capable of producing. This doesn't necessarily mean playing "hard"...just harder than what is necessary to draw the most sound from a given cymbal.

[jddrummer666]

Oh that explains when the first time I hit my crash my stick goes right through it.

Plus every one knows the cymbals only at it's loudest point when its starting to disintergrate.

[ZenErik]

Dude I've had many Zildjian A's, A customs and Z customs in the past and they all broke. Seems like Zildjians are notorious for cracking at the end or even near the bell. If you've only had the cymbal for 9 months you're in luck. All Zildjians have a 1 year manufacture warranty, regardless of if it was a gift or not. Maybe pop in GC and ask them since they're Zildjian dealers.

Unfortunately once a cymbal cracks there's nothing you can do to reverse it. All you can really do is repair it in hopes of preventing it from cracking further. People say to drill a hole at the end of the crack and then take metal sheers and trace guitar pick shaped chunks and cut them out of the cymbal. Really sucks though man, after doing this repair to the cymbal it still sounds kind of flat and lifeless. It's a shame that these cymbals keep breaking even with playing proper technique.

Sounds more like you're notorious for mistreating cymbals.

[PYRRHO]

Oh that explains when the first time I hit my crash my stick goes right through it.

Plus every one knows the cymbals only at it's loudest point when its starting to disintergrate.

That looks like English yet... I have no idea what you just said.

[tallicacrazy]

hahahahaha PYRRHO
i didnt even read what u said but that pic is great so rep haha

[kvr19911]

That looks like English yet... I have no idea what you just said.

hahahah that was funny

[abugazi]

Best bet would be send it in to Zildjian and see if they'll cover it. Since the cracks are along the lathe, they might not consider it user error. Worst they can say is "No coverage" and send it back.

[Dark Rider]

Sounds more like you're notorious for mistreating cymbals.

I was about to say the same thing.

[AXEMAN]

I cracked one the same way. It was less than 1 year old. I went to the Zildizan website where they explain thier return policy. I sent mine in with a copy of my recipt and got a brand new one...no questions asked. I also sent a nicely worded letter telling them how much I love thier cymbals and a photo of my kit which has 16 of thier cymbals around it.

Even of you don't have a recipt because it is a gift..or if the cymbal is over 1 year old send it to them anyway and explain what has happened...the worst that will happen will be they send back your broken one.

I heard they take the cracked ones and re-melt them to make new cymbals. They also like to see thier stuff if it cracks so they can do research to make the cymbals better.

AXEMAN

[Dark Rider]

I heard they take the cracked ones and re-melt them to make new cymbals.

That's probably part of what compels them to send people new ones - raw materials are getting expensive these days, so in effect they're not losing much by giving you a replacement.

[Penguin[22's]]

Thanks for all the helpful info guys.

So, on the subject of overplaying, what do you do in musical situations that demand a playing style typical of overplaying, as you defined it? If this is the case, that overplaying is playing the cymbal at its volume ceiling for long periods of time, then I am guilty of overplaying....however, I do this only when a song comes up requiring riding on a crash...songs by artists such as...

Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
Breaking Benjamin
30 Seconds To Mars
Incubus
etc.

I am genuinely willing to change my technique, as in the past, but I need to know,

1) What I'm doing wrong.
2) What I can do in place of previous technique.

[bretkill]

I am genuinely willing to change my technique, as in the past, but I need to know,

1) What I'm doing wrong.
2) What I can do in place of previous technique.

Well, you've got the right attitude. Just keeping working on it. No one's technique is perfect. Like all things with drums, they take discipline and practice to achieve. Prehaps there's some videos on YouTube that could help you. That's where I go whenever I'm looking for tips.

[AXEMAN]

Penguin[22's],

You've asked an EXCELLENT question. On your first post you've stated you have cracked an A Custom Thin Crash. I have like 6 of those A Custom Crash cymbals and I can tell you they are the thinnest, lighetest weight cymbal Zildizan makes....next to splashes. They are also the most brilliant sounding, decay quickly, and are my first choice for cymbals...they simply sound the best.

If your using one to play what I call a crashing ride pattern...or playing time on a crash cymbal...to prevent breaking the cymbal you have to lighten the force of the strokes your using to play the time. By doing so you will not notice much of a drop in volume. You have to concsciencely control the strokes.

You should notice a diffrence between making a single hit for a crash note and playing a ride pattern on a crash by looking at the action of the cymbal while your playing. You can hit those crash notes a little harder than the ride ones.

First be sure the cymbal is not mounted tightly on the cymbal holder. It should have felt bumpers on top and bottom. It should also have a plastic or rubber grommet which protects the hole in the center of the cymbal from the metal mounting post. The wing nut that secures the cymbal should be just tight enough to lightly touch the grommet and resist unscrewing. When a cymbal is properly mounted it will spin easily without much resistance...it will also swing. Take the cymbal in your hand and move it up and down till it stops ia all directions...taking notice how far the cymbal swings until it stops.

When playing your crash with sticks now...your single louder crash notes should make the cymbal swing almost to the stops...but just miss them. This is what you should see visually. This is the loudest volume you can get out of the cymbal. If your playing a crash note and the cymbal bounces off the stops only once...your are OVERPLAYING it. I've seen guys hit crashes so hard they bounce off the stops 2 times...once up and once down...that's brutal OVERPLAYING.

When you are playing a crashing ride pattern. The cymbal should drop a little and stay there while your are hitting it. It should not be on a stop while your are hitting it. It should not recover until you quit playing it. It should swing a little but not bounce off the stop after each blow. Try to play the ride pattern by not moving your fore arm but control the blows from your wrist only. Focus the sticks stroke on the cymbal to the middle of the bow area...get the stick off the edge. When pulling your wrist back for the next blow...concentrate on allowing the stick to only come back 1/2 as far as you have been. Be sure your are only hitting the cymbal with the tip of the stick...keeping the stick constantly in contact with the cymbal while playing the crashing ride pattern will also allow you to lighten up on those blows.

When you are first starting out with these playing techniques you will need to watch the action of your cymbals...very closley until your hands remember what it feels like to play with the new technique. After some practice you can then not actualy look at the cymbals when you play them.

Another thing you can do is pick a diffrent cymbal to use for playing those patterns on...try to get one that is heavier in weight. Thicker. Also cymbals are made with blended metals...brass, copper, tin and nickle are the most common metals found in cymbals. They use diffrent mixtures to make them...I believe you will find ones having a higher percentage of nickle are the most resistant to cracking. However BE CAREFUL with your choice...nickle is also a hard metal...to much makes a cymbal brittle which can make it easier to crack.

AXEMAN