Mini Rack?

[amazing]

Interesting points made by everyone. Still though, the upper hand is going to Pearl. I've played around with the Icon, and the square bars just make sense. Any experiences with the newer Hex Racks?

The Icon will be a bit harder to cut down and so on. I have no experience with the Hex racks or how the main clamps could be moved. I have done it with both Gibraltar and the Icon. As I said before it is a lot of fun.

[Thrush]

I just watched your video. Very impressive. However, if you had to buy memory locks for every clamp you put on your rack, then the Gibraltar system would cost more than the Icon system. I have between 30 and 40 clamps attached to my rack. If I had to put one or two memory locks on each clamp, that is between 60 and 80 memory locks I would need to secure every clamp.

Musician's Friend is selling them currently for $12.99 each... so that would cost me between $390 and $1040... all because Gibraltar's base system consists of shiny, smooth, round pipes with clamps stuggling to hold on. Now if Gibraltar included one of these hinged memory locks with each clamp you bought, it would be affordable...

Thanks for pointing this out Thrush. You showed us that the base Gibraltar system of pipe and clamp is engineered so poorly, and you have to buy one or two additional "memory lock clamps" to add to the pipe to make it hold. It also means you have to loosen 2 or 3 pieces just to reposition a tom or cymbal. This is all very clear now!

I also find it ironic how you keep saying "don't know how to use a rack correctly", trying to not mention that "using a rack correctly" requires additional purchases that become very costly.

I agree, that if each clamp you bought came with a memory lock it would be much more affordable. But Gibraltar is a company out to make money, so it would be foolish for them to do so.

And at no point anywhere in this thread did I say Gibraltar was the cheaper option. In fact, I think it was you that said they were cheaper...

And why is ironic of me to say "don't know how to use a rack correctly"? It's plainly obvious that people who experience slipping on a round rack don't know how to use a rack correctly - so how else would you like me to put it? Likewise, those that say the bars dent and bend when you crank the clamps down (I believe that was you that said that), obviously don't know how to use a rack clamp correctly. Yes, you CAN dent the rack bars on a Gibraltar rack if you INCORRECTLY overtighten the clamps so much that it causes the bar to get damaged. And you would need to excessively overtighten the clamps to achieve this - you're talking about a steel bar and an aluminium clamp; you do the math.

The only things on my rack, other than the pipe to pipe clamps, that need memory locks on them are my toms, and heavy cymbals (ie, my ride, and my remote hi hats). Nothing else on my rack needs a memory lock to stop it slipping. I do have memory locks on most clamps on my rack, because I like their ability to serve the purpose they were named after; memory locks. So the fact they also lock out any chance of slippage is a bonus to me.

The Icon racks are great, and I've never said otherwise. But for many people, myself included, it's not the best option. What I want from a rack, as do many many thousands of other people, Gibraltar, or other brand of similar designed rack, is a better choice for them. And as Naigewron says - if Gibraltar, and round racks in general (as sold by many different companies) were so inherently flawed and engineered so poorly, why are they the market leader in drum racks?

I'm unsure why you seem to think whose rack is best is such a pissing contest? You have an Icon and you like it - that's great, I'm really pleased for you. But as I said, for other people other products are better suited to their needs. It's very closed minded, and extremely ill-educated, of you to spread mis-information about a product just because you think another is better. It's also very childish. I could go on about how the Icon rack is limited in it's clamp position, or about how it's limited/flawed when it comes to same level horizontal bars, or how you can't move the legs in or out on the horizontal bars, or how you can't reposition the feet in or out. But there's no need to - it's not a contest as to which company makes the best rack. It's about what rack is best suited for the individuals needs. And for that you need to be more openminded and aware of what products are on the market and what they can do for you. What options they provide, the negatives and the positives. And spreading false information is very immature...

I'm glad you enjoyed the video, but you honestly think it pointed out that the design and engineering of Gibraltar racks is flawed and poor, because it needed two hinged memory locks to support the weight of a 200lb man? Really? You do make me chuckle sometimes. That's what you took from that video. You didn't take from it that the supposedly so poorly engineered system of pipe and clamp Gibraltar employ, is able to take the weight of a 200lb man, with two memory locks? You surprise me. Oh no wait, no you don't. I forgot your argument isn't actually about fact, but more about hiding fact in preference of mis-information to make your choice seem better...

[chrisr696]

Matt, i hate to say this. But you do sound like a brand whore. Yes pearl make great stuff that is probably superior, but its like you've shut yourself off from everything else, and are aggressively attacking it.

[Matt Flacche]

Because it would weaken your argument to explain that the only way the Gibraltar rack will work better is if you buy additional parts. Just as it's a tad misleading to call those clamps memory locks, as their main function is to stop the main system from failing. They should be called "clamp supports" or something corporate like that. In reality, who would remove those clamps from the pipe while gigging - no one - so "memory lock" is not the main purpose of the clamp.

And why is ironic of me to say "don't know how to use a rack correctly"?

No pissing contest here. I was informing the OP that Pearl racks do not slip and Gibraltar racks can slip (most likely will slip especially if you don't use the "memory locks"). I didn't know about the mandatory "memory locks" to keep the clamps from slipping. Many players are not even aware of the "memory locks" because Gibraltar doesn't even include them when you buy a clamp.

I'm unsure why you seem to think whose rack is best is such a pissing contest?

Fact: Pearl clamps DO NOT SLIP and DO NOT REQUIRE additional parts to function correctly... no debate. If anyone knows about being immature and condescending (for no apparent reason)... it's you Thrush.

And spreading false information is very immature... You surprise me. Oh no wait, no you don't. I forgot your argument isn't actually about fact, but more about hiding fact in preference of mis-information to make your choice seem better...

I agree.

Yes pearl make great stuff that is probably superior

Anyone can buy and use whatever equipment they like. I was just explaining to the OP why I thought Pearl offered a better product... no more. Many drummers agree, as we see many PDF members who use other brand drums, with a Pearl Icon rack. Thrush is the attacker... calling other members immature, childish and uneducated... which is the real chuckle of the day. But I'm not stooping to his level.

Matt, i hate to say this. But you do sound like a brand whore. Yes pearl make great stuff that is probably superior, but its like you've shut yourself off from everything else, and are aggressively attacking it.

[Thrush]

Because it would weaken your argument to explain that the only way the Gibraltar rack will work better is if you buy additional parts. Just as it's a tad misleading to call those clamps memory locks, as their main function is to stop the main system from failing. They should be called "clamp supports" or something corporate like that. In reality, who would remove those clamps from the pipe while gigging - no one - so "memory lock" is not the main purpose of the clamp.

Actually no. I've not tried to hide the use of memory locks anywhere in this thread. Or any other thread. If I had tried to, I wouldn't have mentioned them, nor posted a video highlighting them.

And yes, people do remove the clamps from the rack when gigging. I have myself. It's far easier, for transport and packing into a hardware case, to remove the clamp with the Tom holder or cymbal holder attached. Which is where the memory lock part comes into play - that clamp goes back on in the same position and angle every time.

No pissing contest here. I was informing the OP that Pearl racks do not slip and Gibraltar racks can slip (most likely will slip especially if you don't use the "memory locks"). I didn't know about the mandatory "memory locks" to keep the clamps from slipping. Many players are not even aware of the "memory locks" because Gibraltar doesn't even include them when you buy a clamp.

So on your Gibraltar racks on your Tama and Pearl kits, what items slipped?

Fact: Pearl clamps DO NOT SLIP and DO NOT REQUIRE additional parts to function correctly... no debate. If anyone knows about being immature and condescending (for no apparent reason)... it's you Thrush.

Could you highlight these condescending and immature remarks I've made please?

Anyone can buy and use whatever equipment they like. I was just explaining to the OP why I thought Pearl offered a better product... no more. Many drummers agree, as we see many PDF members who use other brand drums, with a Pearl Icon rack.

No you weren't. You were spreading false information.

But yes, many drummers with non Pearl kits use Pearl racks. And many drummers with pearl kits use non pearl racks. And many drummers with non pearl kits use non pearl racks. So what was your point there?

Thrush is the attacker... calling other members immature, childish and uneducated... which is the real chuckle of the day. But I'm not stooping to his level.

Umm, you just did though. Twice.

[Diofter]

I use the pearl icon curved for gigging and a diy stealth gibraltar-dixon rack for the studio. No slipping for either racks. Proper use and nobody should have problems.... top products both!

[Spoon]

THIS is what I want to do.

Hey, that's me!

Some things to consider... my "mini" rack isn't easier to transport that stands. Even just using half the rack, it's heavier and bulkier than stands. It's a bit more awkward to pack in my hardware bag as well. However, it's worth it to me because I can position everything exactly where I like it, and I can do so consistently and much easier than I could with stands.

I recently cut the rack even more, so it's now like this (I cut the post now, so the snare basket isn't just clamped off the side anymore. This allows everything to fit in my small hardware bag, is very easy/quick to set up, and it gets everything right where I want it. Still weighs a bit more than stands, but it's a fair compromise.

If I were to do it all again, I'd probably just go with gibraltar because the curved bars would be easier to modify. Plus, I think gibraltar stuff is a bit lighter than the Icon. Not sure about that though. Not saying I don't like the Icon--I love it--but it is a bit of a hassle to work with.



Edit: this isn't a very good picture... maybe I'll get some better shots later.

[Matt Flacche]

I like that wing you have there. What rubber end is that? What that installed from the factory - it looks round??

The Icon square pipes are much more difficult to modify than the round pipes. On a Gibraltar pipe, it takes less than a minute to cut with their nice pipe-cutter. Adjusting the length of the square pipes is more like a workshop project... you need some tools to do it right any make the end result look like the factory. Your cuts look good to me... did you use a hack saw or a ban saw?

Hey, that's me!

Some things to consider... my "mini" rack isn't easier to transport that stands. Even just using half the rack, it's heavier and bulkier than stands. It's a bit more awkward to pack in my hardware bag as well. However, it's worth it to me because I can position everything exactly where I like it, and I can do so consistently and much easier than I could with stands.

I recently cut the rack even more, so it's now like this (I cut the post now, so the snare basket isn't just clamped off the side anymore. This allows everything to fit in my small hardware bag, is very easy/quick to set up, and it gets everything right where I want it. Still weighs a bit more than stands, but it's a fair compromise.

If I were to do it all again, I'd probably just go with gibraltar because the curved bars would be easier to modify. Plus, I think gibraltar stuff is a bit lighter than the Icon. Not sure about that though. Not saying I don't like the Icon--I love it--but it is a bit of a hassle to work with.



Edit: this isn't a very good picture... maybe I'll get some better shots later.

[Spoon]

The rubber piece is just one of the covers that go on the round posts. It fit inside the square bar nice and snug, so why not... ideally I'd want something square to actually cover the whole edge, but this works for now.

I didn't have access to proper tools, so that's why it was more of a hassle to me. I cut everything using a hacksaw and a homemade miter box (at first, I tried using a cheap store-bought miter box but it was a pos and just caused more problems). I got everything cut clean and straight, but not perfect. For example, the pipe clamp on the end of the square bar (you can't see it in the picture) doesn't line up perfect with the edge of the bar. Not an issue really, just minor cosmetics. Plus, I wasn't able to get the screws back in. They're not really necessary on the curved bars I think, but yea. Stuff like that keeps it from looking "factory made," like you said. But it's not noticeable unless you bend down and really look at it, so I'm happy.

[MitchLyons]

Hmm, interesting. I may just go with 2 Stealth Racks. They look sturdy, and I'd personally buy a memory lock for each clamp so that I could just pull off the boom with the clamp still on. I may even rig a way to mount my hi-hat stand, but I'm just thinking out loud. Should I go with the Pearl 1000 cymbal holders or something like a Tama Roadpro? I really dig the Wing Locks and I definitely want some on my next hardware upgrade.

[Matt Flacche]

To get the screws back in, you'd have to drill, countersink and tap a new thread... it only takes a few minutes... but you need the tools. No problem as long as you are happy!

The rubber piece is just one of the covers that go on the round posts. It fit inside the square bar nice and snug, so why not... ideally I'd want something square to actually cover the whole edge, but this works for now.

I didn't have access to proper tools, so that's why it was more of a hassle to me. I cut everything using a hacksaw and a homemade miter box (at first, I tried using a cheap store-bought miter box but it was a pos and just caused more problems). I got everything cut clean and straight, but not perfect. For example, the pipe clamp on the end of the square bar (you can't see it in the picture) doesn't line up perfect with the edge of the bar. Not an issue really, just minor cosmetics. Plus, I wasn't able to get the screws back in. They're not really necessary on the curved bars I think, but yea. Stuff like that keeps it from looking "factory made," like you said. But it's not noticeable unless you bend down and really look at it, so I'm happy.

[Majyk Oyster]

I just customized my curved Icon (once again). it wasn't that hard, I just had to cheat a little: I cut each horizontal bar around a bar end clamp, to remove those easily, then beveled the inside part of the clamps to put them back without a pneumatic press. I also used a little oil. took me under two minutes to reassemble each clamp.