Fat Tone rims Vs. Die Cast

[zildjian2003]

I was wondering if the fat tone hoops hold their tuning like the die cast hoops do. I agree with jutt8 about how much better the die cast hoops hold tuning better than other hoops.

[Thrush]

^ That was what my understanding of them was; the hold tuning like DC, because of their increased strength (supposed to be similar to that of DC) but allow the heads, and drums, to resonate more freely because of their lighter weight, from the thinner steel.

I have four different types of hoops over my kits; the CZX wears 2.3mm SuperHoops, my Premiers have the old fashioned Premier cast hoops, my two rebuilt toms (on the Premier kit) and the Export floor tom, all have 1.6mm triple flange, and my snares range from 1.6mm TF, 2.3mm TF and Pearl's DC hoops.

The DC hoops on the CZX snare hold tuning much better than the 1.6mm hoops on my Pearl COB snare. The 2.3mm hoops on the CZX toms hold better than the 1.6mm on the hybrid kit's toms, and the PremCast hoops hold just as well as the 2.3's on the CZX. So there is little, if any, in it between the PremCast tom hoops and the Pearl Superhoops.

Point is, if I decided to go MasterWorks, would I choose DC or FatTone?

[Thrush]

^ That was what my understanding of them was; the hold tuning like DC, because of their increased strength (supposed to be similar to that of DC) but allow the heads, and drums, to resonate more freely because of their lighter weight, from the thinner steel.

I have four different types of hoops over my kits; the CZX wears 2.3mm SuperHoops, my Premiers have the old fashioned Premier cast hoops, my two rebuilt toms (on the Premier kit) and the Export floor tom, all have 1.6mm triple flange, and my snares range from 1.6mm TF, 2.3mm TF and Pearl's DC hoops.

The DC hoops on the CZX snare hold tuning much better than the 1.6mm hoops on my Pearl COB snare. The 2.3mm hoops on the CZX toms hold better than the 1.6mm on the hybrid kit's toms, and the PremCast hoops hold just as well as the 2.3's on the CZX. So there is little, if any, in it between the PremCast tom hoops and the Pearl Superhoops.

Point is, if I decided to go MasterWorks, would I choose DC or FatTone, or stick with the reliable and trusty 2.3 SuperHoops (and to be honest, other than looksm the only real difference that might sway me, other than any sound difference, would be the fact that DC and FatTone hoops have a lower profile than the Superhoops, which stick up higher above the heads)

[quicksticks]

I don't think it is about weight. Triple-flanged hoops result in a more open drum than Die Cast, whereas die cast are more focussed. But not because of being lighter; because triple-flanged have slightly more give, so the tension in the middle of 2 lugs is slightly lower than at the lugs. The fat tone is about trying to achieve an even more open tone than 2.3 triple flanged, by usiing 1.6 instead of 2.3 thick steel, but folding over so that it is more stiff than those old cheap 1.6 triple flanged hoops.

So really, a good comparison would be fat tones vs 2.3 triple flanged; fat tones vs Die Cast would be apples vs oranges.

I'd like to take it a step further and hear the same drum or drums with all four different
hoops so once and for all we can clearly hear what the differences are. My MCX is my first kit with die cast hoops. I also have a 2002 Masters limited edition snare with die cast hoops. I don't know what these drums would sound like with another hoop, but I do know that they sound great. Maybe I'm a product of the 60's and I'm used to using duct tape to remove the ring, but my drums have just enough ring and resonance for me. BTW, I haven't used duct tape in 17 years and there's no pillow in my kick.

[MusicMan]

I was wondering if the fat tone hoops hold their tuning like the die cast hoops do. I agree with jutt8 about how much better the die cast hoops hold tuning better than other hoops.

Hi,

I haven't noticed any difference in how the die cast or Fat Tone hoops hold their tuning. However, I'm tuning my toms loose and to the lowest pitch of the shell so I'm not puttig a lot of stress on either kind of hoops.

MM

[Drummer freak 16]

I've been thinking it's more about a lack of tone being contributed with the die cast vs their weight etc causing the drum to actually choke. Though their weight adds other factors imo. I think it's the sound of a flange hoop (regular steel hoop) that is missing with the die casts, causing people to 'think' the drum is choked, when really it's just a more 'pure' drum sound (woody). I don't know....that's my latest thinking. I also don't think all zinc die cast have the same dead-ness. I have an old rusted one a friend gave me and it rings clean, clear and long when struck alone, where as my Mastercast went "clunk".

Bingo. Die Casts tend to give the shell the spotlight whereas flanged tend to give the head preference. Simple physics. Lighter hoop = head less encumbered = more energy absorbed by head = more vibration from head. Heavier hoop = more encumbered head = less energy absorbed by head = more energy transferred into shell. Head choice is a biggie too. Coateds will respond differently with different hoops than clears. Personally I like coated resos and batters with die cast hoops on thin shelled drums (jazz drum style). However, that's for toms. When it comes to snares, die cast and (my all time favorite) maple hoops are my only choices. I hate a ringy, whiny snare, but I want one that has great tone. Maple is the perfect compromise. Provides more warmth to the sound while deadening an otherwise ringy head. ME GUSTA.

[Thrush]

So, if looking for a big, fat, deep, focused sound, on a thin shell kit, such as a Master MHX (4 ply mahogany - known for it's rich low end), DC would be the preferred choice to really bring out the wood/shell tone?

[Drummer freak 16]

And for what it's worth (nothing) maple hoops are the way to go on bass drums too!

[Drummer freak 16]

So, if looking for a big, fat, deep, focused sound, on a thin shell kit, such as a Master MHX (4 ply mahogany - known for it's rich low end), DC would be the preferred choice to really bring out the wood/shell tone?

Yeah that just about sums it up. A lot of the old jazz greats (and a lot of current ones) preferred thin shells and die cast hoops for that reason. It had a much woodier sound, really brought out the woods characteristics. A good example of a modern kit that uses this concept is the DW jazz series. I personally prefer Pearl, but you will get the point when you hear this kit. Thin shells, very resonant and (drum roll please) die cast hoops.

[Thrush]

It makes sense I guess - my Premiers, that are easily 70's if not older, have very thin shells (three ply birch I believe, with a mahogany/birch kick drum, all with re-rings) have the classic PremCast die-cast hoops on them

[Thrush]

Looking at the other end of the scale, are thick shells, like my 8 and 10 ply CZX drums, better suited to triple flange or DC's? They still wear the 2.3mm superhoops they came with from day one

[Drummer freak 16]

by my logic, I would go with flanged just to provide balance. On a thick shell, I would be finding ways to open up the sound more than anything. Original Reference floor toms are a good example. Thick as a brick and heavy shelled. I prefer a triple flanged there just because I want a balance of tone and focus. The shell provides the focus in that equation (because its so thick) so that means its the hoop's job to open it up.