Reference Snare Comments: West? Farriss? Okamoto? Carl? Others?

[Musician]

If this has been debated before my apologies for not catching it (far too many topics in these forums to keep up with, which is a good thing):

Does anyone feel that the 20 ply snare is overkill?

Just how much difference will you get out of that drum then say an already massively thick shell such as a 10 ply CZX?

And what in Pearls R&D found that such a thick wood shell is representative of the ideal wood snare sound?

Wouldn't most people who desire a wood snare want the shell to actually interact with the head?

I'm sorry but I just don't see the point in these over the top thick wood shells. To me they are very heavy and take up far too much space of the inner air column. This is another case of diminishing returns in my opinion.

I'm not trying to pose that Pearl is cashing in on the current trend of 50-ply Keller shell enthusiasts, but isn't this a bit excessive to tout this as the ultimate reference snare shell?

[Dft]

And what in Pearls R&D found that such a thick wood shell is representative of the ideal wood snare sound?
The "Current Fad" division.

I'm not trying to pose that Pearl is cashing in on the current trend of 50-ply Keller shell enthusiasts, but isn't this a bit excessive to tout this as the ultimate reference snare shell?
Yes.

[philee]

Obviously they've got to fit the trend... although most people don't like very thick snare drums like the ones in the Reference Series. The fact that the toms and bass drums in the RF sound so good/are highly rated is only promoting the thick snare drum. Pearl, as you have noticed, is also a company with a certain interest in making money (just like most of us...), that shows flagrantly from the recent NAMM products (JJ snare, ELX "diamond burst" kit)...

But now that this new snare is here, I think that everybody will find a snare to their liking in Pearl, which was probably their objective in the first place. Pearl now mass-produce 4-ply, 6-ply, 8-ply and 20-ply snare drums, in three different woods, and you can still get 10-ply and 12-ply in Masterworks, in any offered wood you want.

How can you resist? :p ;)

[Intothevoid]

My initial thought, is that yes, it is certainly overkill. But I have an incling that these snares are going to sell very well (I think the decision to have 20 plies was a very good one from pearl's p.o.v. financially, because it really does seem to be what a lot of drummers are after nowadays). I suppose I can't really comment until I actually sit down behind a reference kit with a 20 ply snare, though. I don't think anyone here has yet, so you never know...maybe it really does sound absolutely amazing.

[Mike Farriss]

If this has been debated before my apologies for not catching it (far too many topics in these forums to keep up with, which is a good thing):

Does anyone feel that the 20 ply snare is overkill?

Just how much difference will you get out of that drum then say an already massively thick shell such as a 10 ply CZX?

And what in Pearls R&D found that such a thick wood shell is representative of the ideal wood snare sound?

Wouldn't most people who desire a wood snare want the shell to actually interact with the head?

I'm sorry but I just don't see the point in these over the top thick wood shells. To me they are very heavy and take up far too much space of the inner air column. This is another case of diminishing returns in my opinion.

I'm not trying to pose that Pearl is cashing in on the current trend of 50-ply Keller shell enthusiasts, but isn't this a bit excessive to tout this as the ultimate reference snare shell?

There has been a trend over the past few years of thicker shell snare drums. Most have had large vents. That is a matter of taste better left to the individual. Our snares do not have these vents.

I don't know if you will like it or not. I can say Dennis Chambers and Omar Hakim both loved the sound of this snare. Both have one on order. It has way more body that other drums that are as thick. This is something you will have to hear for yourself then make a choice.

THe NAMM videos where all recorded with this snare.

[bossy909]

personally, i have not played the snare, but the paiste spirit of 2002 snare, which is not wood, has an extremely thick and heavy shell. It also has one of the fattest, sweetest sounds i have ever heard. also, even though there is less interaction, the difference between the pearl reference snare and paiste's cymbal brass snare is quite different, if you want wood, you are going to notice the difference. I think in the name of thick shells and heavy snares there should be a snare out there, pearl that is, that meets this obvious demand. Let's also remember on top of being a business, these guys are craftsman as well. people that want to produce the most beautiful looking and sounding drums for their players. If you dont like thick shells, buy another snare, buy a shell pack. theres always room for mixing drums, especially snares.
How much difference do you get out of a 4 ply masters and a 6 ply masters, but obviously they have been selling these two models for a while
There is plenty of air column that you can take up before you start to choke the sound of the drum

[Dft]

I don't disagree with the idea of Pearl making a thick-*** snare. It's great. It's another option for those that want it. The problem is, they're touting this as the ideal snare sound, the "reference" for all snares, which is poor, IMO, because this snare is obviously for a niche market, no matter how much you say it isn't.

[Tallica/Sevendust Freak]

To each his own I guess. For Pearl and the general public this might be what people are looking for. It's not that they're forcing you to believe that this is the Reference for all snares but this is the Reference for the sound that they have found to be most effective. Again, this will all be determined by yourself in researching the different snares out there and finding a sound that suits your own ears.

[AntiConformist]

I don't disagree with the idea of Pearl making a thick-*** snare. It's great. It's another option for those that want it. The problem is, they're touting this as the ideal snare sound, the "reference" for all snares, which is poor, IMO, because this snare is obviously for a niche market, no matter how much you say it isn't.

From a marketing standpoint, would it make sense for pearl to slap down an MRX snare with RF finishes and call it a reference? No, they'd be competing with their own drum, and promoting the "reference is just an over priced master's!!one1!!1" crowd. They needed a totally new drum to fit this totally new series, and a super thick snare has been "needed" in pearl's inventory anyway. It just made sense timing wise. Who cares what the badge says? People who are honestly just saying "so pearl says these are the best sounding drums eh? Well then I'll take a set, oh and throw in a snare too" without judging for themselves deserved to get screwed, and would probably be satisfied with a forum.

[whackingrob]

Does anyone feel that the 20 ply snare is overkill?

I'm sorry but I just don't see the point in these over the top thick wood shells. To me they are very heavy and take up far too much space of the inner air column. This is another case of diminishing returns in my opinion.


Have you heard a Reference snare in person? If not I don't see how you can "not see the point" it's shell thickness. True thicker shells may take up "too much space of the inner air column" in your opinion however it sounds like you are not taking into consideration the shell pressing method that pearl utilizes as well as the varying wood components in the Reference snare which does in fact give it a full clean sound. I can say this because I have held one and heard one right in front of me.

[Tallica/Sevendust Freak]

I have yet to hear one in person, but what I've heard online is bloody outstanding and I have yet to improperly choose a kit that I didn't put enough thought into before buying it. Hence why I will be going with Reference. Everything about it from my standpoint at this time is saying "Go for it because the sound is what you're looking for". And it is!

[Musician]

From a marketing standpoint, would it make sense for pearl to slap down an MRX snare with RF finishes and call it a reference? No, they'd be competing with their own drum, and promoting the "reference is just an over priced master's!!one1!!1" crowd. They needed a totally new drum to fit this totally new series, and a super thick snare has been "needed" in pearl's inventory anyway. It just made sense timing wise. Who cares what the badge says? People who are honestly just saying "so pearl says these are the best sounding drums eh? Well then I'll take a set, oh and throw in a snare too" without judging for themselves deserved to get screwed, and would probably be satisfied with a forum.

Well I agree, maybe a 10-ply shell would have made more sense to me, but 20 thick plies?

[Musician]

personally, i have not played the snare, but the paiste spirit of 2002 snare, which is not wood, has an extremely thick and heavy shell. It also has one of the fattest, sweetest sounds i have ever heard. also, even though there is less interaction, the difference between the pearl reference snare and paiste's cymbal brass snare is quite different, if you want wood, you are going to notice the difference. I think in the name of thick shells and heavy snares there should be a snare out there, pearl that is, that meets this obvious demand. Let's also remember on top of being a business, these guys are craftsman as well. people that want to produce the most beautiful looking and sounding drums for their players. If you dont like thick shells, buy another snare, buy a shell pack. theres always room for mixing drums, especially snares.
How much difference do you get out of a 4 ply masters and a 6 ply masters, but obviously they have been selling these two models for a while
There is plenty of air column that you can take up before you start to choke the sound of the drum

I personally feel there is more difference between thinner shell gauges then when you start comparing shells past 10mm or in Pearls case an 8-ply. Especially in a smaller diameter drum such as a typical snare. Now kick drums have much more volume to deal with and I can see hearing a difference between a masterworks 10-ply and if Pearl made a 20-ply kick shell.

[Musician]

Have you heard a Reference snare in person? If not I don't see how you can "not see the point" it's shell thickness. True thicker shells may take up "too much space of the inner air column" in your opinion however it sounds like you are not taking into consideration the shell pressing method that pearl utilizes as well as the varying wood components in the Reference snare which does in fact give it a full clean sound. I can say this because I have held one and heard one right in front of me.

No I haven't yet and not many have yet either played one. What does the shell molding process and wood blend have to do with such an extreme thick shell? Granted like eveyone else, its just my opinion but in a 20-ply 25mm shell it would be very hard pressed to detect a tonal difference at that thickness. That has been my experience with thick shell gauges and stave/segmented snares. There is very little if any at all interaction of the wood shell, at 25mm it could be made out of poplar and no one would truly know the difference especially given variations in personal tunings and head choices.

[AntiConformist]

Well I agree, maybe a 10-ply shell would have made more sense to me, but 20 thick plies?

Wouldn't a ten ply compete with the ever popular eric singer?

Snares are nothing but a personal choice. You can't pick one drum and say this is the "standard" perfect snare drum sound. The qualities one person loves are the same the next person hates. With bass/toms, this is still true, but there's much less room for variation. It would be impossible for pearl to market a reference snare as "the perfect sounding snare" in the same way they do the other reference drums. Pearl has a new snare concept, it happens to wear the RF badge, it may or may not suit your tastes. Oh well. Buy another one of pearl's gorgeous drums that better suits your needs.

[Musician]

Wouldn't a ten ply compete with the ever popular eric singer?


Now that wouldn't be our problem now would it?:)

[megahertz]

Maybe not, but it would be Pearl's problem.

[Mike Farriss]

personally, i have not played the snare, but the paiste spirit of 2002 snare, which is not wood, has an extremely thick and heavy shell. It also has one of the fattest, sweetest sounds i have ever heard. also, even though there is less interaction, the difference between the pearl reference snare and paiste's cymbal brass snare is quite different, if you want wood, you are going to notice the difference. I think in the name of thick shells and heavy snares there should be a snare out there, pearl that is, that meets this obvious demand. Let's also remember on top of being a business, these guys are craftsman as well. people that want to produce the most beautiful looking and sounding drums for their players. If you dont like thick shells, buy another snare, buy a shell pack. theres always room for mixing drums, especially snares.
How much difference do you get out of a 4 ply masters and a 6 ply masters, but obviously they have been selling these two models for a while
There is plenty of air column that you can take up before you start to choke the sound of the drum

This is the guess that best discribes the sound on the RF snares. It is like a wood Paiste (Jeff O) 2002 snare.

[Fixxxer]

When i first heard "20 ply" snare, i was shocked and didn't like the idea. i'm not a fan of thick shells. but when i heard the video...i was sold. If the thing as that ammount of range i bet pearl knows what they are doing

[The Mailman]

I own a Tama G maple, which is 13 plies and I love it!! I also own a DW Craviotto and an Edge, did I mention the MMX and my 4x10 pearl soprano!! You guys get the idea there are many great snares out there. Choosing the reference will be right for some and not for others. Watch for them on ebay and steal'em blind :D

[Xplora]

This is the guess that best discribes the sound on the RF snares. It is like a wood Paiste (Jeff O) 2002 snare.
I think that's a fair comparison actually. One thing I love about my LTD BRX 10 ply is that its got a metal volume and cut but its got that sweet wood sound that just respects the ears so much.

I'm definitely going to check out the References when they hit Australia based on this recommendation alone.

[Prof.Sound]

Seeing as the vast majority of snare questions go something like "how do I get more crack and volume from my snare, I want it to cut" ... Pearl's design makes sense while maintaing much sensitivity/response. They are not the only ones to ever offer a thick snare. Those that use Keller shells can get up to 50 plies.

Remember (and I'll keep pushing this) the RS drums are a concept instrument designed around an objective. Voicing was created by involvement of a select and few very compitent players. You still have several other lines to choose from if it doesn't rock your world.

[booby]

Why was my reply deleted?

[Musician]

Seeing as the vast majority of snare questions go something like "how do I get more crack and volume from my snare, I want it to cut" ... Pearl's design makes sense while maintaing much sensitivity/response. They are not the only ones to ever offer a thick snare. Those that use Keller shells can get up to 50 plies.

Remember (and I'll keep pushing this) the RS drums are a concept instrument designed around an objective. Voicing was created by involvement of a select and few very compitent players. You still have several other lines to choose from if it doesn't rock your world.

I agree, but lets be honest here, just how much more crack and pop will be sonically possible out of that 20-ply shell verses an already massively thick say 10-ply?

I think this idea is a bad case of diminishing returns.

[Mikemeaner]

I heard the 20 ply snare in person at the NAMM show. The first thing i noticed was the high sensitivity of it. It stands to reason with a thick shell, smaller air space and no gigantic holes the amount of air movement in the shell would be faster. Creating a very sensative snare drum. The second thing I noticed was the pop it has, very pronounced and deep. Last was the volume, I have a carbon fiber snare and it seemed to be as loud or maybe louder. All I can say is I will at some point hopefully soon will own one of these gems!

I got to thinking 20 ply = aprox. 25mm which in turn = .98"

So if you have a 14" snare drum you have the air space of a 12" drum inside. No wonder these babies are so sensative!

[Musician]

I heard the 20 ply snare in person at the NAMM show. The first thing i noticed was the high sensitivity of it. It stands to reason with a thick shell, smaller air space and no gigantic holes the amount of air movement in the shell would be faster. Creating a very sensative snare drum. The second thing I noticed was the pop it has, very pronounced and deep. Last was the volume, I have a carbon fiber snare and it seemed to be as loud or maybe louder. All I can say is I will at some point hopefully soon will own one of these gems!

I got to thinking 20 ply = aprox. 25mm which in turn = .98"

So if you have a 14" snare drum you have the air space of a 12" drum inside. No wonder these babies are so sensative!

Then this must defy the logic of thin shells being more sensative. I wonder what Pearl would think about 20-ply tom shells and 30-ply kick drums.

[Just_Dan]

my mate has got a 20 ply orange county snare drum and oh my god it isnt half loud and expensive. but it really sounds nice it might be a bit differently made comparing to pearl but do pearl have that big hole in the side like orande county do? soz that i havent paid to much attention to the shell of the reference series snare drums i love the hardware but i would need to hear the snare it self to know the difference between orange county and pearl.
Acid.

[joshalberg]

No, an OC 20 ply is equal to an 8 or 10 ply pearl, and the RF don't have vents.

[Jookbox]

i still don't get the louder=better mentality.

[Mikemeaner]

I'm not sure anyone said "louder=better", I think its about the ability to have a louder snare if what you play needs that. I think with the addition of this to the Pearl line, it allows you another option!

[Vanished]

A lot of people already criticize the Reference snare drum on this forum, but how many of them had the opportunity to play one, and so to hear it as it is ? This snare has not even came out in stores. I've heard a lot of 20, 30, 40 even 50 ply snare drums (mainly ocdp and ayotte ) that sounded great,so...

[AL PERCIVAL]

I actually played a 6.5x14 RF Reference snare last week when I visited Pearl.
Without real tuning and just playing it as it was presented, it had a totally difference sound than any generic keller 20-ply vented snare. It was deep full of body, very dynamic, sensitive yet full-throttle. Believe it or not, it actually reminded me (sound-wise) of the late 80's Horst Link Sonor Singature snare with that heavy 12-ply beechwood sound but with a tinge of metal only heavier and more dynamic in range. The world "loud" never entered my mind. It was very warm full of body with a lot of projection, but not overly aggressively loud as some would think of a 20-ply. I think it will be a great seller and really pick up once a few people start to get a hold of it and see what a true gem it really is. I actually liked the snare's rich body tone better than my Eric Singer Sig snare. The reference will probably be my next purchase.

My Daughter Rebekah even had fun playing it. :D

[megahertz]

I actually played a 6.5x14 RF Reference snare last week when I visited Pearl.
Without real tuning and just playing it as it was presented, it had a totally difference sound than any generic keller 20-ply vented snare. It was deep full of body, very dynamic, sensitive yet full-throttle. Believe it or not, it actually reminded me (sound-wise) of the late 80's Horst Link Sonor Singature snare with that heavy 12-ply beechwood sound but with a tinge of metal only heavier and more dynamic in range. The world "loud" never entered my mind. It was very warm full of body with a lot of projection, but not overly aggressively loud as some would think of a 20-ply. I think it will be a great seller and really pick up once a few people start to get a hold of it and see what a true gem it really is. I actually liked the snare's rich body tone better than my Eric Singer Sig snare. The reference will probably be my next purchase.

My Daughter Rebekah even had fun playing it. :D

Sounds great!
I just have to try one out..too bad we won't be seeing them in Israel for another century :confused:

[Tallica/Sevendust Freak]

The snare better be worth the 800 bucks or so that I'm going to end up paying for one lol. I had the RF924XAP quoted to me today in CDN funds......without snare and hardware aside from what comes with it. CDN list is around $4225 RF924XAP and for the RF924XSP $4725. Now, my dealer quoted me $3200 for the RF924XAP shell pack plus the $800 snare plus a 16X16 floor tom added and the ICON 3 curved rack, lets rough estimate around $5k for it.......I still don't know exactly how I'm going to afford it but I am mind set on getting it either way.

[Holybanana]

Very Cool Al.

[AL PERCIVAL]

The snare better be worth the 800 bucks or so that I'm going to end up paying for one lol. I had the RF924XAP quoted to me today in CDN funds.......

I've said this a million times and I stand by it. IMHO, There is no Production drum company today (excluding custom companies like Brady), that make a better shell then Pearl Drum Corporation. That includes DW, Spaun, TAMA, Yamaha, Sonor etc., and all the other custom keller shell drum companies.

I think if you order the RF snare, you'll be elated with your purchase and its quality, mastercraftmanship shell manufacturing and sound is well worth the cost.

[Tallica/Sevendust Freak]

I totally agree with that, it just busts my nuts the fact that I'm mind set on buying one of these fine sets but seem overwhelmed by the price. I'm still waiting to pay for the remaining 3 cymbals I ordered back in late Feb which still haven't arrived yet. It's just a lot of money to be forking out for a hobby/profession I love so dearly that I wouldn't have it any other way.....unless I won the lottery, then I'd be all over that ****e right there :)

[wood]

Im getting my RF kit in may. And I ordered the 6.5x14 snare because I play lot's of gig's unmiked using brushes. And I hope the snare is loud. I' ll still use some of my other drum's.Also to Tallica/Why pay so much?You should only pay 1/2 of list price for any drums.

[AL PERCIVAL]

Im getting my RF kit in may. And I ordered the 6.5x14 snare because I play lot's of gig's unmiked using brushes. And I hope the snare is loud. I' ll still use some of my other drum's.Also to Tallica/Why pay so much?You should only pay 1/2 of list price for any drums.

What finish did you order? Definitely post pics when you get the RF kit.
You'll be able to hear the sensitivity of the RF snare even with brushes.... :D
That is one awesome sounding snare. Heavy too, wait til you pick it up.
I was surprised how heavy it is.......... 25mm shell thickness, guess it would be heavy huh? ;)

[Tallica/Sevendust Freak]

Im getting my RF kit in may. And I ordered the 6.5x14 snare because I play lot's of gig's unmiked using brushes. And I hope the snare is loud. I' ll still use some of my other drum's.Also to Tallica/Why pay so much?You should only pay 1/2 of list price for any drums.


I imagine it's mostly mark up but if I go through anyone else I end up getting screwed on Shipping and worse, duty. Just for the RF924AX 4 piece shell pack it's 3200 bucks with no pedals or hardware other than optimounts, heads, hoops, etc. I'm adding a 16X16 tom (probably around 500-600 itself) to it and also getting the Icon 3 curved rack(300 roughly) on top of the snare (800) too. All in all I'm gonna be in debt lol. Time for that new years resolution to kick in where I make my big purchase, sell off my computer and almost all of my worldly posessions to keep the drums, 'Tallica cd's/dvd's and work off the debt lol

[HardHitter]

New years resolution: to go into debt...
now that's original.

[wood]

hey' Aperciva.I ordered my kit in purple craze.Tallica/ you should still check out mass music they do 50% off or more if you call them.Hardhitter why not I have been playing drums for a LIVING for 27 years.Drums are a tool I use to make money.If you work on cars or build houses would you not want the best tools you could get?