Reference Series vs. [anyone] ?

[kevin1983]

This is a simple questions that requires an unbias answer. Is there any real competition for Pearl's Reference Series Drums? If son, what are they?

[_Big_Mac_]

Pearl Masterworks :)

[philee]

Sonor Designer is the closest I can think of...altho you can't mix woods except for outer plies. That's like a Master with Custom finishes... but 's all good ;)

[PearlMan]

Not that I know of. Perhaps OCDP but I doubt they offer different bearing edges, I think they're all 45 degree.

[Prof.Sound]

No...You have to remember, its a pre-engineered package..its not custom. Nobodt right now offers anything thats even close to the concept at the price.

[PearlMan]

Nobodt right now offers anything thats even close to the concept at the price.
I guess you can say it's the ultimate kit.

[philee]

Which was Pearl's objective, wasn't it? ;)

[Pearldrummer10]

ultimate maybe not ultimate i will decide when i here one when my shop gets one in....im still very skeptical

[Stefan Ray]

Guys don't be dissapointed when you get your kits and they don't sound any different than a Masters!! Some of you will be extremely dissapointed after all of this hype!!

[aless7]

I think pearl wanted to help people to make the right choice of shells and woods to get the *optimum* sound... Sometimes, the multiple choices of masterworks can be confusing for a less experimented drummer... right?

[Unlastinglove.]

It all depends on the person. Self Preference.

[Mikemeaner]

dw drummer.....have you had the opurtunity to hear and or play on a Reference Series kit???

[Stefan Ray]

Yes and no. Was it a Reference? No. It was a Masterworks that had the EXACT and I mean EXACT specs of a Reference kit. It didn't sound any different than my Masterworks or a Masters. I don't think my Masterworks kit sounds any better than a masters. My kit sounds ok, but if I had it to do over, I would not get the Masterworks. Both of my dw's sound better than my Masterworks!!

[Mikemeaner]

Wow both your dw's sound better than your masterworks and your masterworks sound the same as your masters??? What about the sound of the dw's makes them sound better?? deeper tone, more crack, more volume????

[D.F.C.]

Yes and no. Was it a Reference? No. It was a Masterworks that had the EXACT and I mean EXACT specs of a Reference kit. It didn't sound any different than my Masterworks or a Masters. I don't think my Masterworks kit sounds any better than a masters. My kit sounds ok, but if I had it to do over, I would not get the Masterworks. Both of my dw's sound better than my Masterworks!!


yes, please explain this one!!! - Why do you think your dw's sound better than your masterworks.

[Stefan Ray]

First off, I don't have a masters. Just a few friends that do. If I knew why my dw's sounded better, I would bottle and sell the info!! lol

What I like about my dw's is that they just have a very distinctive warm tone, lots of bottom, great attack, tons of volume, and they still have punch. It's like they have the characteristics of Birch, Maple, and Mahogany, but they are all Malpe. My Masterworks toms and snare are all Maple. The kick drums are 8 ply, 4 inner African Mah, and 4 outer Maple. The Masterworks have the same amount of plies in each drum as the dw, yet they do not have near the bottom or attack the dw's have. As far as the snare goes. Noone can top the Edge snare drum by dw. It is the most amazing snare drum ever.

When I got my Masterworks and set it up, I found myself missing the dw's. I had tp put the dw's back up and took the Masterworks down. I am not saying the Masterworks suck, they just are not as fun to be around. They make my drumming feel more like a job than what drumming for a living is supposed to feel like if that makes any sense. They do not tune as easy or stay in tune like a dw kit does. It's harder to get a dw out of tune than it is to get a Masterworks in tune it seems like.

[Stefan Ray]

Oh by the way, somone left me neg rep for my opinion. I don't always read what I like to on this forum, but I do respect your guys opinions because you have your right to them. I don't go and give people neg rep for what they think. With that said. Some "gutless wonder" left me neg rep for my opinion and didn't have he balls to even leave his name. If you leave any type of rep leave your name!!

[Mike Farriss]

Yes and no. Was it a Reference? No. It was a Masterworks that had the EXACT and I mean EXACT specs of a Reference kit. It didn't sound any different than my Masterworks or a Masters. I don't think my Masterworks kit sounds any better than a masters. My kit sounds ok, but if I had it to do over, I would not get the Masterworks. Both of my dw's sound better than my Masterworks!!

Where did you play this MW kit with RF configuration? I don't know of anyone who has one. Did it have the edges? There was only one prototype made.

[Demfer]

People are used to saying that the reference series is just mass produced MW kits. This comes about because of a diffrent wood shell configs which Mw offers. Reference offers a specific ply configuration to make each sized drum sound its best and bring about the most accustic presence, and also specificly cut bearing edges which mw doesnt offer. Along with specific finishes there is no mw that sounds like reference. I have heard about a masterworks at last years NAMM which was secretly a reference i.e the wood combo and bearing edges.

Hey Mike any word of when you guys ship out thoes 10 Reference kits to stores yet? Im dieing to try one out so i really get a feeling of what im getting when my kit finally arrives in june.

[dubsnack]

busted... This guy's posts always sound like lies.

[bisonplayer]

the closest thing to even being competition has to be Premiers Gen-x drums....they were the first (in a long while) to combine two high-end woods together....imo

[dougthedrummer]

DW drummer, u sound very anti pearl to me. Im going to at least save up enough to be able to choose between masters and reference's, the concept of them sounds amazing and i really think they are going to sound amazing. DW make beaut drums, no doubt but they are no where near as advanced as the reference kits and the reference kits are cheaper so in theory i carnt lose.

[Mike Farriss]

People are used to saying that the reference series is just mass produced MW kits. This comes about because of a diffrent wood shell configs which Mw offers. Reference offers a specific ply configuration to make each sized drum sound its best and bring about the most accustic presence, and also specificly cut bearing edges which mw doesnt offer. Along with specific finishes there is no mw that sounds like reference. I have heard about a masterworks at last years NAMM which was secretly a reference i.e the wood combo and bearing edges.

Hey Mike any word of when you guys ship out thoes 10 Reference kits to stores yet? Im dieing to try one out so i really get a feeling of what im getting when my kit finally arrives in june.

DEMFER

Ray and Gene are out right now but I think the drums started shipping last week. I will try to get the cities and store locations.

[Demfer]

DEMFER

Ray and Gene are out right now but I think the drums started shipping last week. I will try to get the cities and store locations.

Thanks man.

[SLIPKNOT1]

Yes and no. Was it a Reference? No. It was a Masterworks that had the EXACT and I mean EXACT specs of a Reference kit.

Maybe the wood composition was, but not the bearing edges. The bearing edges are new to the Reference line. So your Masterworks kit was not EXACTLY the same.

Having owned two DW kits myself and played far more then you more then likley ever will, perhaps you would like me to teach you how to tune?. While sound is totally personal in that what may sound great to one person sounds worse to another, you insist on coming off as though you are the master of what sounds good. I understand your posting your opinions, but the way you present them is a bit arrogant.

And would you mind posting pics of your two DW kits and your Masterworks kit?. I would like to see them.

[treetrunk]

the closest thing to even being competition has to be Premiers Gen-x drums....they were the first (in a long while) to combine two high-end woods together....imo

Whats up Dave? Haven't seen you in months. Hows it going?

[megahertz]

Maybe the wood composition was, but not the bearing edges. The bearing edges are new to the Reference line. So your Masterworks kit was not EXACTLY the same.

Having owned two DW kits myself and played far more then you more then likley ever will, perhaps you would like me to teach you how to tune?. While sound is totally personal in that what may sound great to one person sounds worse to another, you insist on coming off as though you are the master of what sounds good. I understand your posting your opinions, but the way you present them is a bit arrogant.

And would you mind posting pics of your two DW kits and your Masterworks kit?. I would like to see them.

Ha! Awesome post! :)

[drumzalicious]

Maybe the wood composition was, but not the bearing edges. The bearing edges are new to the Reference line. So your Masterworks kit was not EXACTLY the same.

Having owned two DW kits myself and played far more then you more then likley ever will, perhaps you would like me to teach you how to tune?. While sound is totally personal in that what may sound great to one person sounds worse to another, you insist on coming off as though you are the master of what sounds good. I understand your posting your opinions, but the way you present them is a bit arrogant.

And would you mind posting pics of your two DW kits and your Masterworks kit?. I would like to see them.
wow, you were talking about him being arrogant. um..how do you know that you have played more than he ever will?

also um, if he tuned both sets the same then im sure he could tell which one he liked better.

in relation to the thread. i don't think we will be able to determine a competitor for reference series until we hear them ourselves instead of going off the opinions of others since through hearing we will be able to make up our own opinion.

[bisonplayer]

Or we could just say that if the kit is built great by any given company and is cared for in the process, depending on head selection and tuning, that kit will sound good. Serious guys, all high-end kits are good, they all have their pluses and minuses, but in the long run, they wouldn't be high-end if they didn't sound good...or have the possibility to sound good.

[SLIPKNOT1]

Or we could just say that if the kit is built great by any given company and is cared for in the process, depending on head selection and tuning, that kit will sound good. Serious guys, all high-end kits are good, they all have their pluses and minuses, but in the long run, they wouldn't be high-end if they didn't sound good...or have the possibility to sound good.

Absolutley. Personally, if you buy a pro level kit from any of the big drum companies, your getting a great kit in every aspect.

The debate here is what you get for your money.

[SLIPKNOT1]

wow, you were talking about him being arrogant. um..how do you know that you have played more than he ever will?

Re-read what i wrote again.

I said and played far more then you more then likley ever will.

"More then likley" indicating just that.

I worked as a manager at GC, work in the music industry full time both on the logistics end (Dealing with drumkits almost daily) and the Drum tech end. I don't think my statement was that far fetched.

[megahertz]

Or we could just say that if the kit is built great by any given company and is cared for in the process, depending on head selection and tuning, that kit will sound good. Serious guys, all high-end kits are good, they all have their pluses and minuses, but in the long run, they wouldn't be high-end if they didn't sound good...or have the possibility to sound good.

You are quite right, but still I have heard an MMX in some shop and it just DIDN'T sound good to me.
Maybe it was just about tuning, but then again, why should a store not tune a drumset good? it just made me think that aslong as you pay so much (and over here you pay about 3500$ for a 5 piece MMX..ouch) for a drumset, you should love how it sound even if it's not so tuned, you should fall inlove with it's sound right away.

Do you think I'm wrong?

[Stefan Ray]

Slipknot1,

If you want to see a pic of my Masterworks kit here is the link. It is the double bass kit in Vanilla Sparkle with black hardware. It should be the first pic you see!! http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=50706&page=33&pp=12



"You have played more than I likely ever will" "You will teach me how to tune" And you say I am arrogant?

When it comes to Pearl drums, I think the Pearl Masters is the best bang for the buck. I think they sound just like my Masterworks. Why do you think you have to try and discredit me? If I had it to do all over again, I would have just gotten a Masters. You are always quoting so called facts. Why do you ALWAYS have a problem when someone else does? It is just like the other day when I explained that dw were more expensive because they were made in the USA (where labor cost are alot higher) instead of Taiwan, all you could say was "there all Mexicans at dw" as though dw is running a sweat shop over there or somthing. I gaurantee you dw employees are being paid better than the employees making drums for Pearl in Taiwan!!

I said in other posts, Pearl does do alot of good things that dw doesn't. However, me and alot of other people prefer the sound of dw's. If this really bothers you that much, maybe you should limit your "Forum" to Pearl players only, otherwise get over it. You always say people have a right to their own opinion, if this is the case, let them have it. Anytime anyone says they like anything better than Pearl, you try and discredit them. Have I ever said anything negative to you because you think Pearl is the end all be all of drums? No, that is your opinion and that is fine. So, let me have mine.

I think the tuning problem with the Pearl drums is the "Opti mounts". I think the idea of the "Opti mounts" was a great one, but I do think it has tuning flaws that go with it. Again, just my opinion.

As soon as I get my digital camera back, I'll post pics of the dw's. If proof is all you want, I will be glad to put you in touch with where I got them!!

[bisonplayer]

You are quite right, but still I have heard an MMX in some shop and it just DIDN'T sound good to me.
Maybe it was just about tuning, but then again, why should a store not tune a drumset good? it just made me think that aslong as you pay so much (and over here you pay about 3500$ for a 5 piece MMX..ouch) for a drumset, you should love how it sound even if it's not so tuned, you should fall inlove with it's sound right away.

Do you think I'm wrong?


You are right. As for walking into the drum department at any given store and hearing a crappy high-end kit....that is due to Guitarist getting stuck working back in drums!!!! lol

[bisonplayer]

I think the tuning problem with the Pearl drums is the "Opti mounts". I think the idea of the "Opti mounts" was a great one, but I do think it has tuning flaws that go with it. Again, just my opinion.



You do realize that DW's mounting system puts excessive stress on the shell causing some to go out of round. But then again, it's still better then drilling into the shell! I'm sorry for not having a pic to back this up, i don't normally take one everyone time i go to Guitar Center, so because of this i will have to say that this is my opinion.....but i have seen it happen!!!!

[chadmental]

Originally posted by the guy with the green/yellow dw floor tom as his avatar: It is just like the other day when I explained that dw were more expensive because they were made in the USA (where labor cost are alot higher) instead of Taiwan, all you could say was "there all Mexicans at dw" as though dw is running a sweat shop over there or somthing. I gaurantee you dw employees are being paid better than the employees making drums for Pearl in Taiwan!!
you have kinda got a point. I played a BRX in the studio the other day and was a bit disheartened to find it said "made in Taiwan" on the masters badge. I mean if you pay top doller for any other thing in life i.e a good socket set, its usually made in the usa! i know there probably isnt much of a difference but it would put me of them. Does anyone know if the masterworks series is made in the usa? or at least doesnt say it on the badge? i read in an advert for a drum shop that pearl kits came from Japan, is that true?

[Stefan Ray]

chadmental, if you read about 3 posts up you would know the answer of the question is no. Masterworks are made in Taiwan as well!!

[megahertz]

I honestly don't care where my drums are made, as long as they are made with quality materials and quality supervision.
And I don't think that Pearl is inferior to any other company there.
And buy manufacturing in Taiwan they actually provide lower prices, so I don't see what's wrong with that :)

[Mike Farriss]

"I think the tuning problem with the Pearl drums is the "Opti mounts". I think the idea of the "Opti mounts" was a great one, but I do think it has tuning flaws that go with it. Again, just my opinion."


We have had no complaints about tuning problems. I don't understand why you are haveing such issues. Great drummers like Dennis Chambers, Omar Hakim and many others think this is the best mounting system they have used. Believe me if there where a problem with this system we would have heard about it and it would be fixed.

[Mike Farriss]

I honestly don't care where my drums are made, as long as they are made with quality materials and quality supervision.
And I don't think that Pearl is inferior to any other company there.
And buy manufacturing in Taiwan they actually provide lower prices, so I don't see what's wrong with that :)

Good Post Megahertz

The craftsmen that make our drums in Taiwan are every bit as proud and concerned with their work as any other drum builder no matter where they are from. We are not the only country where people take pride in there work.

[Demfer]

"I think the tuning problem with the Pearl drums is the "Opti mounts". I think the idea of the "Opti mounts" was a great one, but I do think it has tuning flaws that go with it. Again, just my opinion."


We have had no complaints about tuning problems. I don't understand why you are haveing such issues. Great drummers like Dennis Chambers, Omar Hakim and many others think this is the best mounting system they have used. Believe me if there where a problem with this system we would have heard about it and it would be fixed.

100% agreed

I can for one say that the pearl optimount system is the most advanced drum mounting system avaliable today. In no way, shape, or form does it cause anykind of tuning issues. And thinking about how the optimounts actually work it doesnt even make any sence as to how they can cause tuning flaws. Look at the design its perfect for what it does. If there are any flaws in tuning they are your own. Try and experiment with diffrent heads and tunings, some things sound better to some than others.

[KAPPMAN999]

this is the proto-type for the reference series, its the only one in the world and just recently sold at the Memphis Drumshop for 5 grand. Its the exact same bearing edges,plies and wood combos. I beleive dwdrummer when he says he played th kit, its a short drive for him to make, and it was set up for a couple of months.
l8r,
Ryan

[Stefan Ray]

I use the same heads on my Masterworks as I do on my dw's and my Tama's way back when. I use the coated Ambassador's. In fact that is what came on my Pearl Masterworks.

If it is not the Opti mount system, I don't know what to tell you. The drums do not stay in tune. I have also read on here of others saying the same thing. Please understand, I do not hate or think my Masterworks kit is not any good. I just PREFER the sound I get from my dw's. Is that really a crime?

As far as not hearing any complaints from Dennis Chambers or Omar Hakim about the Opti mounts having tuning problems, Do these guys really have to tune their own drums? lol Just kidding Mike!!

[Mike Farriss]

I use the same heads on my Masterworks as I do on my dw's and my Tama's way back when. I use the coated Ambassador's. In fact that is what came on my Pearl Masterworks.

If it is not the Opti mount system, I don't know what to tell you. The drums do not stay in tune. I have also read on here of others saying the same thing. Please understand, I do not hate or think my Masterworks kit is not any good. I just PREFER the sound I get from my dw's. Is that really a crime?

As far as not hearing any complaints from Dennis Chambers or Omar Hakim about the Opti mounts having tuning problems, Do these guys really have to tune their own drums? lol Just kidding Mike!!


Yes many times.Dennis has a tech for Santana but he still re-tunes everything to his critical ear. Omar has his own studio in Yonkers where his MasterWorks kit (Maple Mahogany similar to yours) is set and he works there every day. He sends me work he has used this kit on 3 or 4 times a year.

[Mike Farriss]

Kappman

That kit is not a prototype RF kit. That is a kit built just to show off the graphics.

[Stefan Ray]

Hey Mike, I have a question I think you could probably answer.

I don't really remeber the guys name, I think it is Jonathan somthing, anyway, on the Pearl video that all your big endorsers talk about the Masterworks and Masters and so on this guy has an all Mahogany kit with a 26'' bass drum and the kit is white. He says in the video that it is all Mahogany. I didn't think it was possible to paint an all Mahogany kit white? Can you shed some light on this?

[Mike Farriss]

Hey Mike, I have a question I think you could probably answer.

I don't really remeber the guys name, I think it is Jonathan somthing, anyway, on the Pearl video that all your big endorsers talk about the Masterworks and Masters and so on this guy has an all Mahogany kit with a 26'' bass drum and the kit is white. He says in the video that it is all Mahogany. I didn't think it was possible to paint an all Mahogany kit white? Can you shed some light on this?

If the wood is sealed you can paint it any color. Mah. is a little tougher because it is so brown but opaque colors will work on Mah. Jonathon Mover's kit is an Antique White which also helps because it has a yellow/brown tint.

[Stefan Ray]

Thanks Mike. The reason I asked the question was because there have been a few people on the Masterworks forum inquiring about getting an all Mah. kit and wanting it white. Carl said it couldn't be done. Is this just somthing an artist can get done?

[Mike Farriss]

Because of the amount of work required to get Mah. to an all white state, it just isn't cost effective. Again Jonathon's kit was off white. The main concern is inconstancy.

This is why most Mah instruments are the Cherry Mah color. Look at guitars. The Gibson SG is a Mah instrument and it is almost always black or Cherry Mah.

[Stefan Ray]

Thanks alot Mike. Now I know exactly what to tell people who inquire next time. Have a great day and thanks again.

[carl62]

Guys don't be dissapointed when you get your kits and they don't sound any different than a Masters!! Some of you will be extremely dissapointed after all of this hype!!
You're right. I found that out.

[PearlMan]

You're right. I found that out.
You tried them? Which masters line do they sound like?

[carl62]

You tried them? Which masters line do they sound like?
Yep, I tried them last week at Dales' Drums Shop and they sounded EXACTLY like the 4-ply maples. Even the salesman who was there with me couldn't even tell the difference.

[PearlMan]

Yep, I tried them last week at Dales' Drums Shop and they sounded EXACTLY like the 4-ply maples. Even the salesman who was there with me couldn't even tell the difference.
Thanks!

[Stefan Ray]

I told everyone that the reference series was NOTHING but HYPE!!

[dougthedrummer]

I dont believe that, maybe the all maple 12 tom would sound like that, but surely the basses, snares and floor toms would sound different?

[Inspector]

Guys don't be dissapointed when you get your kits and they don't sound any different than a Masters!! Some of you will be extremely dissapointed after all of this hype!!

Clueless

[Inspector]

I've played the BRX, MMX, MRX, and the MHX, and they all sound different. The BRX (birch) and the MRX (maple) are both 6ply with the same edges, yet they dont sound the same. Some of you claim a Masterworks or Reference series with different thickness, mixed woods, and different edges sound like Masters!?...preposterous.

[dougthedrummer]

Well thats made my day.

[Mike Farriss]

I told everyone that the reference series was NOTHING but HYPE!!



We have had many compliments on the RF kits from highly regarded professionals whos opinions carry great weight in our industry. Some of the compliments came from one of the owners of the company whos logo you show so proudly. This happened on the NAMM show floor. :D

The RF kit won the MIPA award for best Drum-set. This award was given to Pearl by the professionals in our industry. But I guess the industry professionals who gave out this prestigious award were just swayed by all the hype. ;)

[jpcdrummer]

What is killing me here is that so few people have actually heard the Reference drums in person (and far fewer have actually played them) yet we are getting opinions of the sound. I say to you (and I mean anybody), if you have doubts about these drums, DON'T ORDER THEM NOW. Wait until they have been out for a while!

Those of us that are ordering them before we even lay hands on them are taking a risk for sure (Hell, I took the same risk with my MLX, MRX and BRX drums. I never even laid eyes on them before I ordered them.) But nobody has forced us to take the leap and if it proves to be a mistake, you who have waited will hear all about it. Having said that, I see the possibility of that being remote at best. Here is why:

Ask the question, what company in it's right mind would risk everything by not coming through with the goods? It just doesn't make logical sense. Also, I have never been disappointed before and I have bought three high end drumsets sight unseen. There will be people that don't like the drums when they come out, fine, don't buy them. But please, don't disparage these drums before they even hit the market.

[megahertz]

this is the proto-type for the reference series, its the only one in the world and just recently sold at the Memphis Drumshop for 5 grand. Its the exact same bearing edges,plies and wood combos. I beleive dwdrummer when he says he played th kit, its a short drive for him to make, and it was set up for a couple of months.
l8r,
Ryan

Mike, can you please tell me why does that MasterWorks kit has only 8 lugs on the bass drum?

[jpcdrummer]

Looks to me like it's an 18" or 20" bass drum that only needs 16 lugs.

If it's an 18" bass drum, 8 lugs per side gives you 7" of linear distance between lug centers, or probably about 6 inches for your bass drum pedal.

If it's a 20", 8 lugs per side gives you 7.85" of linear distance between lug centers, probably under 7 inches for your pedal.

My 22" has 10 lugs with 6.9" between lug centers or about 6" of clearance for my pedal.

I doubt one would want 20 lugs on an 18" or 20" bass drum.

And there endeth today's math session.

j

[DWplayaAPCtool]

I "played" the Red Fade kit that West La Music now has. They toms sound nice, but to tell you the truth, i was a little dissapointed. The kick sounded pretty good (20x22) but everything else sounded normal to me, and im picky about drums. On the other side of the room, they have a BEAUTIFUL sonor designer bubinga kit. With the 2 8x10's next to each other, the sonor had more tone, attack, resonance, bite. I think that pearl wanted to come out with a kit that was ground breaking, and decided that if they started having Masterworks kits showing up at every Guitar Center, they would become less sought after. So, the reference, which are the masterworks with the differnt shells and mass produced in only a couple of colors. Not that the kit didnt sound good, but i was hoping for more. I dont really love pearl, but i was hoping for them, and it didnt come up!

[dancetheirdance]

this whole thread cracks me up. of course there will be hype about the product, thats what advertising is. how else would we ever know when new stuff comes out if it wasn't plastered in every magazine and all over brochures in our favorite drum shops(guitar stores with drums in em)

about the sound of the kit, bottom line...it doesn't matter much to me. i know what kit sound best to my ears and what will always sound best.....whatever i happen to be playing on at any given time because those are the drums i myself make music on.

think about it :D

[jpcdrummer]

this whole thread cracks me up. of course there will be hype about the product, thats what advertising is. how else would we ever know when new stuff comes out if it wasn't plastered in every magazine and all over brochures in our favorite drum shops(guitar stores with drums in em)

about the sound of the kit, bottom line...it doesn't matter much to me. i know what kit sound best to my ears and what will always sound best.....whatever i happen to be playing on at any given time because those are the drums i myself make music on.

think about it :D

Thank you! Finally a voice of reason.

[conaway drummer1]

dw

[wood]

when I ordered my RF kit I thought about how many guy's ordered masters drums or other high end drums and would be mad.Lets say you ordered a masters kit and your waiting for them still and pearl comes out with a drum set and says these are the beans and you spent the same kinda money and have last years model.

[Pearldrummer172]

I heard the References on the Reference tour. It was not hype at all. I have extensively played the Masters and while they sounded good the Reference blew them away. This is not hype. This is great sounding drums at their finest.

[vanillaCOKE2k2]

maybe dw kits or probably designers, or hi end yamaha kits.

[Gherkin]

dw drummer: Maybe it's the die-cast hoops that makes your MW sound worse to your ears... Have you tried putting the triple flanged hoops from your DW's on it? I'm just curious. :)

[Pearldrummer172]

Hey DW drummer ill take those MW's off your hands for you.

[??]

You know, after all this talk about shell construction, bearing edges, the difference between mahogany, birch and maple (which isn't really all that much IMO) and the Reference Kit compared to Masterworks and Masters (And DW :D) and you know there is one kit that I have played and I think is the best sounding kit compared to anything out there....

It’s a Sleishman, nothing plays or sounds like a Sleishman.

This isn't a declaration of how much Sleishman kits are better than Pearls kits, but this thread asked for the Reference kit to be put up against any other kit and I'm saying Sleishman make totally unique sounding kits that I think sound like nothing on the market TODAY!! Seriously. If you don’t know what they are research them.

That's my 2 cents, congrats to Pearl for their recent success of the Reference kits, you make the market much better for us consumers :D

[DeepThought]

This thread is a pretty funny read..

I've played on a Ref kit, I've played on 3 Ref snares, and attended the Nashville Ref clinic. I've also played on all the Masters series, and a Masterworks.

My opinion? The hype is true.

I've also played on a few DW kits that impressed me not at all, but I don't assume that DW must therefore have nothing behind its hype.

[??]

It's all subjective