In my opinion, a mistake by Pearl

[Zalastri]

First before you all rip my intestines out and beat me with them, I am not saying I am dissapointed or anything. If the drums really sound (in person) like they're supposed to, then hell that's awesome. I think it'd have been better if Pearl had just given masterworks the option to customize bearing edges and then gave this "reference" list to masterworks potential buyers as the best configuration for a masterworks set. It would have increased the sales of their highest priced and highest rated drums, and made them more money. It just seems to me when I think about it that if they went in a different way they wouldn't have had tomake another series that sort of robs their supposed end all be all series of it's glory. Because cmon, if you want the drum that is really YOURS (custom finish, colors, etc) your going to go masterworks. Though reference will probobly expand in that department, it is not totally custom, and if I were spending close to that ammount of money on drums I'd want something that was completley mine. My only point in posting this was to try to show that the reference series (In my humble opinion) would have been better off as an expansion of the masterworks series.

Thanks :) flame me if you want :x

[Siy]

hay dude i know what u mean but i myself doesent really want to try and aford the masterworks and put myself innto silly debts trying to pay for it but the reference i can just about start thinking about it hehe

and its kool that thir bringing something else out but the only thing that does my head in is when they change things like 100000s of times and bring 100000s of things out like yamaha lol

siy

[dude78787]

what do you mean about the yamaha thing? I'm confused.

Anyways, yeah, this sort of makes it look like you basically have to decide what's more important to you. Customization or the type of bearing edges and stuff you like.

I love yamaha because when they find something really good (recording customs!) they stick with it for years and years. Yet they also try to improve on their other kits.

[Babbulous_07]

True, but masterworks still has its ups over the Reference series. Different finishes and you can show more of what you like rather than the general Reference set-up. Everyone that buys a 14X14 In. tom gets 2 inner plies of Mahog. and 4 outer plies of Maple, and that wouldn't make anyone different from anyone else. BUT, if you buy a masterworks 14X14 in. tom, you have the option of putting in some birch to cut through, different for a floor tom, but hey, that's the up for masterworks. Also, I'm sure they'll offer different bearing edges for masterworks in the near future.

[pappyhyde]

I'll bet you can get MW with bearing edges the way you want. The tooling is there for the new Ref's so why not?

[AdolfZander]

hay dude i know what u mean but i myself doesent really want to try and aford the masterworks and put myself innto silly debts trying to pay for it but the reference i can just about start thinking about it hehe

and its kool that thir bringing something else out but the only thing that does my head in is when they change things like 100000s of times and bring 100000s of things out like yamaha lol

siy

MW only costs about 12-15% more. hell, thats pretty much the sales tax on RF. ill take MW anyday.

pappyhyde: exactly my point in "RF in MW" in the masterworks thread. appearently they don't do rounded edges. if they can make a 20 ply snare for RF, why not in MW? it doesnt make sense, we are the ones putting up more cash, not a lot more but still more. enough with my ranting...

[AL PERCIVAL]

I understand where you're coming from and for the most part agree with you. What I think............... The Reference Series was not only the most advanced innovation in accoustic drums, but a great marketing tool to get otherwise hi-end drummers that wanted but couldn't afford a Masterworks kit, into a Masterworks-type kit without the high price tag. This potentially opens up a whole new generation of drummers into the more custom-like hi-end drum market and possibly moving some folks who look at hi-end kits like DW, OCDP to take a closer look at Pearls Reference series. I think it works out great for Pearl and Masterworks. The 15-20% who want total custom everything will continue to purchase a Masterworks, DW exotic kits etc..... I don't think the reference series will hurt the sales of Masterworks in the least.

[MelodyMaster]

Yeah you rock aperciva.

[Poseidon]

hay dude i know what u mean but i myself doesent really want to try and aford the masterworks and put myself innto silly debts trying to pay for it but the reference i can just about start thinking about it hehe

and its kool that thir bringing something else out but the only thing that does my head in is when they change things like 100000s of times and bring 100000s of things out like yamaha lol

siy

Dude, periods.

[Prof.Sound]

I think to understand the Reference Series, vs the Masterworks vs YAMAHA (per the example given) is to understand corporate philosophy. Business lesson one is to remember, companies exist to make money. This is not a bad thing! You want them to make money. From this comes inovation. You benefit from it big time.

Although I am by no means part of the inner circle to these drum companies, I do own a production oriented company that provides many forms of custom work.

True, the Reference Series could be added to the Masters line, no doubt. But I don't think that would be good marketing of the product, or for that matter, smart of Pearl.

RS is different in that Pearl can tool up production and purchase raw materials based upon the amount of product they project they will put into the market. On the MWKS, they cannot do that because the field is wide open for choice.

When you can project and take gambles with “knowns” stemming from engineering, you can't do that when you open the door for any combination of woods, edges, etc. You can't (as efficiently) build your production department, sales, marketing, customer service, etc. much less actually build the product.

The way Pearl has done it, it seems to me it allows them to bring a unique and different product to market at a price point that would otherwise be much higher. Plus, all you need to do is read many of the MWKS posts to know that essentially, even though the options exists to mix woods, many people are just guessing at what they want. They have no real ability to do the "hear testing" that Pearl has done to define a kit like the Reference Series.

I would guess that at some point, Pearl will offer an ability to change bearing edges and offer same hardware, etc. But for now, that would not be a wise choice, even though even I would like to see it.

All of this is just guessing, as is whether or not this is or is not a mistake on Pearls part. Whether you agree or not, it does give them a niche that nobody else can match for now. And that's great marketing and the bonus is, you can get a price benefit.

[Siy]

oh well i know what u mean

but i just like the idea of the RF supose i could get a MW in the same config but will take ages to get lol

and i ment yamaha have change the stage custom allot i usto have one when i started and changed a few things i was going to get the best but i liked the pearl better

ill think abotu a MW but i still dont know

siy

[Fixxxer]

But you also gota consider:


How many people just take Carl's word on which shells to use? almost everyone, because he knows what hes talking about. I figure that i don't need to chose my own plys, i'll just take what sounds good. I plan to buy a Reference because it has the blended woods which i want from Masterworks, along with the new lugs (which are tight), but isnt quite as expensive.

[Dibs]

No flaming is needed. You made excellent points.

[HardHitter]

The beauty of the Reference series is that the good of Masterworks shines through (sound) while the bad (possibly making a dumb desicion on ply configuration or thickness) is removed. Pearl has done the hardest part for you, using more experience than you probably have. So, you end up with the ultimate drum sound. Looks are superfilous, they really don't matter after all. No matter what finish you dream up, it won't come through in the studio. The shell composition will though!

[xaerospace]

The wait for a masterworks kit kinda comes into play also. They claim that the RS will be a production line, meaning our wait will be little. I think they are trying to tap into the DWish end of owners, that can walk into GC, buy a nice DW kit and walk out the door with it. You can't with a masterworks (unless they have one there). I think the wait for drums was a big force driving the design and birth of the RS line.

[Kim'adiddle]

The wait for a masterworks kit kinda comes into play also. They claim that the RS will be a production line, meaning our wait will be little. I think they are trying to tap into the DWish end of owners, that can walk into GC, buy a nice DW kit and walk out the door with it. You can't with a masterworks (unless they have one there). I think the wait for drums was a big force driving the design and birth of the RS line.
You mean RF line not RS line??

[Genius Switch]

First of all $2,199 for the 4 pc RF shell pack is not bad at all....considering all the thought that went into them ON TOP of Pearl's already amazing shell design and quailty. I just hope they catch on and everybody buys them, because it will be at least another year before I can afford to get a set, including another $500 or so for the 20 ply matching snare. I'm sure by then there may also be a few new finishes, maybe choice of hardware color too, but I've always been a chrome fan.

I've been drumming for over 10 years, so therefore I have 10 years of gear experience and buying experiences, and IMHO Pearl is the pinnacle of high quailty and innovation at the best price for any high volume company. I'm talking about their entire product line. Add in the fact that places like Mass Music, Midwest and others sell most Pearl stuff at incredible prices, the Reference Series is within my reach if I spend wisely!

Never thought I'd want to get rid of my DW kit so soon....

[xaerospace]

You mean RF line not RS line??

No, I meant RS for Reference Series..... but if it is RF, then I have learned something new. 8)

[Pearldrummer10]

ya........screw RF. If you have the right kind of cash, I bet pearl will do pretty much anything you want. If you have the right kind of cash that is. But imo i will never probably get a rf. Just go strait to the MW

[Tabla_Man]

These drums look great, but I'm not real keen on the 20 ply snare drum. Good move on the rounded bearing edges though, nice to see them having a comeback.

BTW, how about a 4 ply drum with reinforcment rings and bearing edges. Now that's what I call vintage.

[Avantasia]

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I think what Pearl should have done is a research programme (that they could have called Reference) and just presented it to their MW clients as a reference point that they can expand on. In a sense they the research programme part but I don't see why they had to make it into an actual 'range'. Especially with the name Reference...doesn't do much for me.

But i've not seen them in person yet :)

[_Big_Mac_]

Probably they did that to allow mass production. If it was only a setup presented to clients as "that's one way you can have it", it wouldn't be mass producted.

[Prof.Sound]

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I think what Pearl should have done is a research programme (that they could have called Reference) and just presented it to their MW clients as a reference point that they can expand on. In a sense they the research programme part but I don't see why they had to make it into an actual 'range'. Especially with the name Reference...doesn't do much for me.

But i've not seen them in person yet :)

Again, this might be good for you (and those wanting Masterworks with varied edges) but it's not good for Pearl. It would simply make the same drum more expensive to do it in the Masterworks line.

I guarantee Pearl put some market research into it and it will sell many more drums than if offered in the Masterworks line. In the end it will be good for everyone. It rasies the bar for competitors, and your choices will become many if the drum sells as well as indicators show.

[DeepThought]

I think Prof. Sound has made some excellent points on the subject.. Good enough that I really have nothing to add!

[Tabla_Man]

Again, this might be good for you (and those wanting Masterworks with varied edges) but it's not good for Pearl. It would simply make the same drum more expensive to do it in the Masterworks line.

I guarantee Pearl put some market research into it and it will sell many more drums than if offered in the Masterworks line. In the end it will be good for everyone. It rasies the bar for competitors, and your choices will become many if the drum sells as well as indicators show.

I don't think this was ever intended to "replace" the masterworks line. This is more of a step inbetween the Masters and Masterworks kits. Essentially Pearl is allowing people to get all the sonic advantages of using multiple plies of varying woods that you get with Masterworks, but at a much lower price point.

90% of the drum market is still going to be purchasing a solid single wood drum set, be it Masters, Session or even Export (which is Pearls bread and butter in the drum market).

As I said, I'm no fan of the latest fads of 20 ply to a rediculous 50 ply snare drums that some companies put out. I think Pearl is going after a fad here, but to their credit, they went tward the lower end 20 ply, and they didn't cut a big round hole in the drum taking away the tonality.

The most interesting thing on this drum kit are the rounded bearing edges. No other major drum company is offering that right now, it's just the standard 90 degree cut that everyone else is using.

As I said, Pearl if your listening, offer a kit at next years NAMM that's the 4 ply maple kit with these new bearing edges. You will sell a million of them, and I will be the first person to trade in my SRX for a set of those drums.

[booby]

it's just the standard 90 degree cut

90 degree?! :confused:

I'm sure that Reference drums sound amazing, there's no doubt about that, but I personally think that they are 80% hype. They won't sound like full maple drums, but the differences (I think) won't be earth shattering. The bearing edges do have an impact on the sound and so does the wood combos used, but all the hype has made many drummers go blind (not literally :p ).

Just my two cents. Don't get upset...

[Tabla_Man]

I think the 20 ply snare drum is hype. I don't know why they did this, but like I said, at least they didn't cut a 6 inch hole in the side of the drum.

As I said this isn't meant to be a replacement for the masters series. It's a kit in the price range of the masters that gives you alot of the advantages that Masterworks offers, including the masterworks hardware.

The bearing edges are not hype. These type bering edges have been around for years, and there are professional drummers from other companies who have their 90 degree bearing edges recut for the rounded edges because they want the vintage sound.

[SLIPKNOT1]

I'm sure that Reference drums sound amazing, there's no doubt about that, but I personally think that they are 80% hype. They won't sound like full maple drums, but the differences (I think) won't be earth shattering. The bearing edges do have an impact on the sound and so does the wood combos used, but all the hype has made many drummers go blind (not literally :p ).

Just my two cents. Don't get upset...


Untill you actually hear one in person, your comments really don't matter. Your just guessing.

[Demfer]

Untill you actually hear one in person, your comments really don't matter. Your just guessing.

Well it seems your one of the a very few here who has actually had a chance to hear it, and hear it played by some great pros. What are your thoughts on it and its sounds? Im thinking about investing in one and interested to hear what you think about em because frankly im quite torn on the whole idea.

[booby]

Untill you actually hear one in person, your comments really don't matter. Your just guessing.

True, but I think I made it pretty clear in my post, don't you think?

[dude78787]

I guess the main reason I don't really care for RS is because the sound that they were going for isn't really what I would want in a kit. The reference series kits have the low toms vintage sounding, but the higher toms punchy and stuff. I like an even sound all the way around the kit. I like all of my toms to sound vintage, warm, etc. Sort of a uniform sound across the kit, just with different pitches. So I guess not everyone is looking for something different in their 10" tom than their 16" floor tom.

That's just me though. I would prefer a kit where all of the toms were punchy or all the toms were really warm sounding than one that had some one way and the others another way. Listening to the video, I could tell this, because I loved the bass drum. I also loved the 12" tom, I loved the floor toms, and I liked the higher toms, but I didn't like how they sounded when played together.

I also found it funny how they said "the days of making drums out of one material are over", just because pearl introduced one series into the plethora of other high end kits out there.

Once again, just my opinions on it.

[Tabla_Man]

I also found it funny how they said "the days of making drums out of one material are over", just because pearl introduced one series into the plethora of other high end kits out there.

Yeah that's just hype, but as I said, the RS is offering something previously only availible in masterworks at a price point around what the Master series are.

Again it's all personal preference, but I think Pearl has opened up a market for people who are interested in the concept of mixing woods in Masterworks, but can't justify the price of a masterworks kit.

[Decap1tator]

I understand where you're coming from and for the most part agree with you. What I think............... The Reference Series was not only the most advanced innovation in accoustic drums, but a great marketing tool to get otherwise hi-end drummers that wanted but couldn't afford a Masterworks kit, into a Masterworks-type kit without the high price tag. This potentially opens up a whole new generation of drummers into the more custom-like hi-end drum market and possibly moving some folks who look at hi-end kits like DW, OCDP to take a closer look at Pearls Reference series. I think it works out great for Pearl and Masterworks. The 15-20% who want total custom everything will continue to purchase a Masterworks, DW exotic kits etc..... I don't think the reference series will hurt the sales of Masterworks in the least.
amazing post, you know what you're talking about, one of the extremelly few rep-points i've ever given out is coming your way.

[Hongkong]

Well it seems your one of the a very few here who has actually had a chance to hear it, and hear it played by some great pros. What are your thoughts on it and its sounds? Im thinking about investing in one and interested to hear what you think about em because frankly im quite torn on the whole idea.

I did hear the drums played by a number of artists and I have to say that I was genuinely blown away by the sound and by the quality of the drums. For me personally I would go with the Reference Series rather than Masterworks simply because I don't feel that I have enough knowledge about the sonic qualities of different wood combinations to make the right choice for myself, and I questioned this aspect of Masterworks well before the Reference Series was introduced.

However, even if 20 people tell you the new series sounds great you still have to hear them for yourself because they may not be what you are looking for (obvious). I spoke at length to the guys at Pearl and it became clear to me that a hell of a lot of time and research went into the end result and I'm convinced that if I was looking to buy a new kit I would almost certainly go for a Reference Series or, if I was particularly concerned about the current limited range of finishes, I would order a Masterworks to Reference specs, including having the bearing edges done.

I think Pearl are seeking to have customers move up from Masters to Reference rather than down from Masterworks and if they can achieve that whilst offering drummers a sound that they prefer, then everyone wins but it's not as though they are taking away choice, they are simply offering another option - I think they should be applauded.

Cheers!

[Xplora]

Threadstarter, your comments would be dead on the money, IF Pearl never changed their mind about these things.

Masterworks snares are available in 20 ply already, any wood combo you choose, as long as you use the three Reference snare sizes. Any finish, any hardware colour, etc etc.

I have absolutely no doubt that once people start asking for the Reference bearing edge cuts etc in the Masterworks, they will become available pretty quickly.
Pearl is an EXTREMELY unique company in this respect... as a big corporate entity, they are without question, the most flexible and responsive I have ever dealt with. My enormous kit is basically all Pearl (except LP bongoes which I got cheap) because Pearl is the best at the price point these days, and I know they will be flexible for me. The fact they can achieve that for thousands of drummers is just mindblowing.

[Tabla_Man]

Threadstarter, your comments would be dead on the money, IF Pearl never changed their mind about these things.

Masterworks snares are available in 20 ply already, any wood combo you choose, as long as you use the three Reference snare sizes. Any finish, any hardware colour, etc etc.

I have absolutely no doubt that once people start asking for the Reference bearing edge cuts etc in the Masterworks, they will become available pretty quickly.
Pearl is an EXTREMELY unique company in this respect... as a big corporate entity, they are without question, the most flexible and responsive I have ever dealt with. My enormous kit is basically all Pearl (except LP bongoes which I got cheap) because Pearl is the best at the price point these days, and I know they will be flexible for me. The fact they can achieve that for thousands of drummers is just mindblowing.

Good point Xplora, Pearl is giving DW a run for their money. When you look at the price point for DW and Pearl, it's hard for most people to justify spending the kind of money on a DW kit.

And if you look at the big picture right now, the other Japanese drum companies aren't even close to being able to offer all that Pearl is offering. That's not to say that those other companies don't have great drums, but they are lightyears behind Pearl as far as innovation and offering more for less.

[Butnutz]

The wait for a masterworks kit kinda comes into play also. They claim that the RS will be a production line, meaning our wait will be little. I think they are trying to tap into the DWish end of owners, that can walk into GC, buy a nice DW kit and walk out the door with it. You can't with a masterworks (unless they have one there). I think the wait for drums was a big force driving the design and birth of the RS line.

word and word.

[Genius Switch]

Good point Xplora, Pearl is giving DW a run for their money. When you look at the price point for DW and Pearl, it's hard for most people to justify spending the kind of money on a DW kit.

And if you look at the big picture right now, the other Japanese drum companies aren't even close to being able to offer all that Pearl is offering. That's not to say that those other companies don't have great drums, but they are lightyears behind Pearl as far as innovation and offering more for less.


I ABSOLUTLEY AGREE 1000000000000% to what xplora and Tabla Man said. I mean I love my DW kit, but it was an experience that I definetly learned something from. DW is overpriced for sure, for I could have easily bought a completely new Pearl set-up including some hardware for the price I paid for my DW shell pack, and I even got a great deal on them.

Two years ago Pearl would've been one of my last choices, but after seeing how much Pearl listens to their customers, and realizing they offer the best quailty, features, and service for the best price of any major brand, I've never wanted a new Pearl drum set so bad.

[Genius Switch]

On a side note, I think that with the way Pearl keeps evoloving, it won't be long until Exports get upragaded to some sort of maple shell, either 100% or a maple/wood combo. You heard it hear first.

[Just_Dan]

First before you all rip my intestines out and beat me with them, I am not saying I am dissapointed or anything. If the drums really sound (in person) like they're supposed to, then hell that's awesome. I think it'd have been better if Pearl had just given masterworks the option to customize bearing edges and then gave this "reference" list to masterworks potential buyers as the best configuration for a masterworks set. It would have increased the sales of their highest priced and highest rated drums, and made them more money. It just seems to me when I think about it that if they went in a different way they wouldn't have had tomake another series that sort of robs their supposed end all be all series of it's glory. Because cmon, if you want the drum that is really YOURS (custom finish, colors, etc) your going to go masterworks. Though reference will probobly expand in that department, it is not totally custom, and if I were spending close to that ammount of money on drums I'd want something that was completley mine. My only point in posting this was to try to show that the reference series (In my humble opinion) would have been better off as an expansion of the masterworks series.

Thanks :) flame me if you want :x
i know what your saying man but if that what pearl does thats what pearl does simple as that but good point.

[xaerospace]

word and word.
werd

[DrumCraft]

I agree with zalastri; The reference series are bad ***, but it should have been only for the masters custom. But it is cool that Pearl is making that kind of kit at some what a good price.

cheers, drumcraft

[Mike Farriss]

Guys

You have no real reason to believe me when I tell you this but I am going to say it. You that know me will know it is true and you that don't will think it is Corp. BS.

Jim Phiffer is the President of Pearl US. He is also a GREAT musician.
Terry West is the Exc. Vice Pres. He is also a Great musician.
Gene Okamoto is Pearl's Product Specialist. He is one of the most respected people in the drumming community and a Great musician.
Raymond Massey is Gene's right hand man. Dennis Chambers has Raymond play for him because he has so much respect for this guy.
These guys, coupled with the great R&D team and Craftsmen at Pearl Japan and the factory, worked very hard for several years to take the drums you play to a more advanced place.
I hope you see a pattern here.

I have put all this information down so you could have some back ground to base what i am going to say next.

THe concept for the RF series came from Great Musicians wanting to create the best possible production drum set in the market place today. Nothing more.... We did not want to use the same formula that has been the standard for the past 30 plus years. Everything around us is advanceing why not your drums?

There was no great marketing plan behind this concept. It was about useing the information and technology that we, as a company, have at our disposal to create a product unlike anything that has come before. Something that we would be proud to be affiliated with.

Who needs a marketing concept when the reasons for building this kit was to advance the drums to a level that has previously been held back for only guitars, violins and other stringed instruments.

All the inovations you have seen from Pearl over the last five years have been driven from one point of view. What can we do to help drummers achieve. Pedals with more adjustments so the drummer can have any feel he or she wants. Snare stands that will do a better job on all size snares because todays players don't just use 14's. A better more responsive cable hat. A hi hat that has adjustments like your pedals.
Cymbal stands that make a drummers life easier by being more flexible. And now drums that are designed to be the best it can be for each size. Now your 10 inch tom and your 22 inch bass drum, which from a sonic point of view are nothing alike, can be the best sounding durm it can be.

I could go on but I won't.

[Mikemeaner]

Thank You Mike!!!!! You and all involved in Pearl and the making of the greatest Drums on the planet!!! Must be why the motto is:

Pearl The Best Reason To Play Drums

[Demfer]

Guys

You have no real reason to believe me when I tell you this but I am going to say it. You that know me will know it is true and you that don't will think it is Corp. BS.

Jim Phiffer is the President of Pearl US. He is also a GREAT musician.
Terry West is the Exc. Vice Pres. He is also a Great musician.
Gene Okamoto is Pearl's Product Specialist. He is one of the most respected people in the drumming community and a Great musician.
Raymond Massey is Gene's right hand man. Dennis Chambers has Raymond play for him because he has so much respect for this guy.
These guys, coupled with the great R&D team and Craftsmen at Pearl Japan and the factory, worked very hard for several years to take the drums you play to a more advanced place.
I hope you see a pattern here.

I have put all this information down so you could have some back ground to base what i am going to say next.

THe concept for the RF series came from Great Musicians wanting to create the best possible production drum set in the market place today. Nothing more.... We did not want to use the same formula that has been the standard for the past 30 plus years. Everything around us is advanceing why not your drums?

There was no great marketing plan behind this concept. It was about useing the information and technology that we, as a company, have at our disposal to create a product unlike anything that has come before. Something that we would be proud to be affiliated with.

Who needs a marketing concept when the reasons for building this kit was to advance the drums to a level that has previously been held back for only guitars, violins and other stringed instruments.

All the inovations you have seen from Pearl over the last five years have been driven from one point of view. What can we do to help drummers achieve. Pedals with more adjustments so the drummer can have any feel he or she wants. Snare stands that will do a better job on all size snares because todays players don't just use 14's. A better more responsive cable hat. A hi hat that has adjustments like your pedals.
Cymbal stands that make a drummers life easier by being more flexible. And now drums that are designed to be the best it can be for each size. Now your 10 inch tom and your 22 inch bass drum, which from a sonic point of view are nothing alike, can be the best sounding durm it can be.

I could go on but I won't.

Thoes are the words of a Great company, very well put mike. I changed my mind about you buddy ;)

[wood]

I ordered my RF kit the first week of Feb and i dont get them till some time in May. Some drummers I know have said Im nuts for buying a kit I'v never played on but I have so much trust in pearl drums.

[Genius Switch]

Straight from the horses mouth, try getting that from any other drum company.

Pearl has really turned itself around in these last 5 years, and I can't say any drum company has impressed me more with products, service, and value than with Pearl.

[jpcdrummer]

Why did Pearl make the reference series? Was it for suckers like me? Well, maybe and maybe not. First let me say that I was not looking to buy another set of drums. I have two sets already, a 2001 MRX and a 2002 BRX that almost anybody would love to have in their stable. So was I successfully marketed to by Pearl? Yes and no.

I have the money to buy what I want when it comes to drums and I don't compromise. So why didn't I buy a masterworks set? Because I don't trust myself to have the knowledge to create a drumset like that. We pay good money for things that are exceptional like cars and drums. But what are we really paying for? In my opinion, we are paying for knowledge and trust that we are getting a good product. Most of the time we get that. With masterworks, the consumer has to have that knowledge. And then you get to wait a really long time. Masterworks would be a total shot in the dark for me. I pay others for that knowledge. That's why I ordered the reference series drums.

So, was I a sucker, we shall see when I get my drums. But I will say that the bearing edges are what pushed me over the edge here. The mixed woods, I love that idea but I really wanted the traditional sound of the rounded edges. Pearl did not make a mistake with this line. They have taken the guesswork out of masterworks for those of us that don't care to try and guess what might work. If you have the knowledge, fine, go with MW. The only thing that bothers me is the choice of colors for reference. Having said that, I don't much care for the myriad of color choices with MW.

So, Pearl did do a good job of marketing. But, all the marketing in the world won't work if the product is not good. In May we will find out if it was a marketing ploy (I highly doubt it) or there really is something here.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

j

[interceptor]

I really think they should offer some more finish and hardware options though. I agree with the fella near the top of this page (can't be arsed to check) who says that he prefers his drums to be of the same properties but just different pitches.

It's all more hype again though. They tell everyone about the new series before NAMM, building up everyones hopes, then we still have to wait for ages before we can actually hear them.

For the Pearl guy a few posts above to say that there was no marketing strategy is complete BS. Pearl have adopted a standard way of marketing the new product, as I have explained earlier. Its all about raising hopes and anticipation for the new product, like a star wars film trailer for example.

Yes Pearl are a great company who listen to their customers, but why patronise us?

[jpcdrummer]

Hey, they have to make money, no? Marketing is part of the game. Hopefully we are strong enough people that if we don't really want it, we won't buy it for all the marketing in the world.

Marketing works though because people buy crap all the time.

[The Hermit]

On a side note, I think that with the way Pearl keeps evoloving, it won't be long until Exports get upragaded to some sort of maple shell, either 100% or a maple/wood combo. You heard it hear first.


You never heard from a line called "Sessions"...did you?

[Mike Farriss]

I really think they should offer some more finish and hardware options though. I agree with the fella near the top of this page (can't be arsed to check) who says that he prefers his drums to be of the same properties but just different pitches.

It's all more hype again though. They tell everyone about the new series before NAMM, building up everyones hopes, then we still have to wait for ages before we can actually hear them.

For the Pearl guy a few posts above to say that there was no marketing strategy is complete BS. Pearl have adopted a standard way of marketing the new product, as I have explained earlier. Its all about raising hopes and anticipation for the new product, like a star wars film trailer for example.

Yes Pearl are a great company who listen to their customers, but why patronise us?

I knew someone would cry BS.... If you don't believe my comments that's your choice. I was in all the blue sky meetings about the developement of RF. I know for fact that the product came first. The press release on RF is nothing more than the story of how it was developed.

If you chose to believe that it is all marketing so be it. I know better. This kit was developed by people that truly wanted to advance drums so that all drummers have the best possible product.

I wish you could have all been there so you could know first hand.

[interceptor]

I knew someone would cry BS.... If you don't believe my comments that's your choice. I was in all the blue sky meetings about the developement of RF. I know for fact that the product came first. The press release on RF is nothing more than the story of how it was developed.

If you chose to believe that it is all marketing so be it. I know better. This kit was developed by people that truly wanted to advance drums so that all drummers have the best possible product.

I wish you could have all been there so you could know first hand.

See, there you go again.

I'm not debating the quality and research that went into these drums, just the marketing hype. I work for a marketing/PR company so I can recognise certain strategies, and the one used by Pearl for the reference series is pretty standard when it comes to releasing new products.

Are you seriously saying that a huge multi-national corporation like Pearl spends millions on developing and producing 'the most advanced acoustic drums in the world' and then DOESN'T have a marketing strategy?

Pull the other one 00**

[Mike Farriss]

See, there you go again.

I'm not debating the quality and research that went into these drums, just the marketing hype. I work for a marketing/PR company so I can recognise certain strategies, and the one used by Pearl for the reference series is pretty standard when it comes to releasing new products.

Are you seriously saying that a huge multi-national corporation like Pearl spends millions on developing and producing 'the most advanced acoustic drums in the world' and then DOESN'T have a marketing strategy?

Pull the other one 00**



You have a right to your opinion and I respect that right. I know what I know and I can't argue that point with you because you were not here.

To Market: A meeting together of people for trade by purchase or sale.

Marketing is to make consumers aware of a products features and benefits. It has nothing to do with the creation of a product. Marketing also has no reward if a product is inferior.

Therefore if anyone makes you aware of something’s existence, by advertising or press releases then it is being marketed. Therefore all products have to be marketed or the consumers would never know they exist.

Marketing can only be successful if the product has merit. It can help launch an inferior product but once the consumer has a chance to use the product the truth will come out.

We are confident that this product has great merit. Professionals such as Dennis Chambers, Chad Smith, Omar Hakim, and Morgan Rose have already lent their names and reputations to this product. Many other artists such as Bobby Jarzombek, Terrence Higgins, Will Kennedy and Horacio Hernandez have played this kit and made many flattering comments about the sound and look of these drums. Many artists that endorse other products came by at NAMM and played this kit and had many words of praise.

Marketing can only deceive an uneducated person. Learn about a product before you make a purchase. We are confident that our products will stand up to anything in the industry and surpass most. We are also right here if you have a problem. We don’t hide or avoid phone calls, emails or PM’s. One of the main functions of this forum is to make sure our consumers are happy with the performance of our products and have a way to contact us directly if their problem is not being taken care of. Most of the members that have been here for a while know how quickly we will react to any problem with our products. It has nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with quality and service.

What I am saying to you is marketing cannot make this product a success. Quality and performance will.

You make marketing sound like it is a tool to be used against the public. Marketing can only increase your interest in something. You as individuals have to decide if the product is right or wrong for you.

My opinion is that this is the best product available in the drumming industry.

[AL PERCIVAL]

Excellent post Mike.

[Tabla_Man]

I don't get this whole contraversy. As I said the Referance series is just another choice in the line of Pearl products. They aren't getting rid of the Masters series, and I immagine many of their endorsers will continue to use products from the Masters line.

As I said, I've never been a fan of 20 ply snare drums, because I enjoy the musical resonance of the drum, and for what I play the last thing I need is more volume.

There are many aspects about this series that intrigue me, mostly the rounded bearing edges. Like I say, Pearl should introduce these bearing edges on the 4 ply MMX and you'd have a sound as close as possible to the Vintage Slingerland kits that everyone dies for, with better more reliable hardware.

But I strongly disagree with those who are saying this is hype, because there is a great engineered product behind it.

Now OCDP, that's a company that's all hype and nothing behind it. It's basically a very expensive paint job on Keller shells that you can buy direct from keller for far less than what OCDP is selling to you for. They are hype because they get a bunch of MTV type people to endorse their products who appeal to a younger generation, but have little pull with those of us who are into music other than thrash metal.

Pearl has a wide range of endorsers from metal, to jazz. They've also got guys like Chambers, Hakim, Hernandez, etc. who are guys that have a widely respected reputation among all drummers. I mean we can argue night and day if Travis Barker is all he's craked up to be, but if you don't know that Horatio Hernandez is one of the best and most musical drummers on the scene today, with independance that most drummers would kill to have, then you clearly are out of your mind.

People complain about Pearl putting out these press releases before NAMM, well that's what NAMM is all about isn't it? If Tama, or Yamaha, or whoever decides to introduce a new product, don't you think they would do the same? Remember last year one of the big draws at NAMM was Neil Pearts Paragon cymbals? There was more talk about Peart switching to Sabian last year than there was talk about the Reference series this year.

Mike is 100% correct hype won't sell a product. Having a good product will. I've played Pearl Drums for over 20 years, and I have enough confidence in their craftsmenship to look into these kits. I'm not sure if the sound will be what I want (especailly a 20 ply snare drum), but I know it will be an unmatched quality product.

[Drummer519]

Very well said Tabla Man. I hope to get one of these Reference Series kits in at the music store I work at sometime soon. The concept is something of thought about since I first heard about the Masterworks Series. There are so many options out there that the even an educated consumer could get lost in. It's nice to see that Pearl has essentially put together a kit with what has been discovered as the best specs for a drum kit.

Nice job Pearl!

[esSHOEco.]

Drummers who may be great at drums but dont eithe have the knowlage or time to pick certain woods etc, may just want a great drum without going through all that. I do see your point tho.

[interceptor]

You have a right to your opinion and I respect that right. I know what I know and I can't argue that point with you because you were not here.

To Market: A meeting together of people for trade by purchase or sale.

Marketing is to make consumers aware of a products features and benefits. It has nothing to do with the creation of a product. Marketing also has no reward if a product is inferior.

Therefore if anyone makes you aware of something’s existence, by advertising or press releases then it is being marketed. Therefore all products have to be marketed or the consumers would never know they exist.

Marketing can only be successful if the product has merit. It can help launch an inferior product but once the consumer has a chance to use the product the truth will come out.

We are confident that this product has great merit. Professionals such as Dennis Chambers, Chad Smith, Omar Hakim, and Morgan Rose have already lent their names and reputations to this product. Many other artists such as Bobby Jarzombek, Terrence Higgins, Will Kennedy and Horacio Hernandez have played this kit and made many flattering comments about the sound and look of these drums. Many artists that endorse other products came by at NAMM and played this kit and had many words of praise.

Marketing can only deceive an uneducated person. Learn about a product before you make a purchase. We are confident that our products will stand up to anything in the industry and surpass most. We are also right here if you have a problem. We don’t hide or avoid phone calls, emails or PM’s. One of the main functions of this forum is to make sure our consumers are happy with the performance of our products and have a way to contact us directly if their problem is not being taken care of. Most of the members that have been here for a while know how quickly we will react to any problem with our products. It has nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with quality and service.

What I am saying to you is marketing cannot make this product a success. Quality and performance will.

You make marketing sound like it is a tool to be used against the public. Marketing can only increase your interest in something. You as individuals have to decide if the product is right or wrong for you.

My opinion is that this is the best product available in the drumming industry.

Mate, you really are talking out of your arse. Marketing IS a tool to be used against the public, you apply a strategy in order for the consumer to spend their hard earned cash on your product and no-one elses.

Which strategy you use is irrelevant, you want to sell your drums and in order to do that you need a marketing strategy.

I'm not saying anything about what came first or any of that crap. The point of this is that Pearl made some new drums, they want the consumer to buy them and so a strategy is used to make the consumer believe that the Pearl product is the one to buy.

Just because Pearl are a drum company, doesn't mean they're any different from any other faceless corporation, except from the fact that a well used message board can be a powerful marketing tool instead of a sustained tv/magazine/ad campaign. Obviously the stategy used was the correct one as you can reach all of your potential customers via this message board, but does anyone know of any other drum company running their own message board?
My point exactly, this message board is your marketing strategy, you don't need to do anything else

You can say things like "It's all about quality and service" but every company in the world says that, whether it is true or not is irrelevant in this discussion. Like I've said before, stop patronising us.

[jpcdrummer]

That's a little harsh don't you think? Lumping ALL corporations into a sea of "faceless" evil empires? Haliburton is an evil faceless corporation, Pearl doesn't even come close.

Some of what you say is reasonable. For instance, ALL corporations have an obligation to make money, that's their sole reason for existance at some level. But don't begrudge them that. Would you go into business for any other reason? Certainly not with the goal of LOSING money! As such, marketing is a tool to help your company make money. As I, and others, have said on this thread, all the marketing in the world will not work unless you have the product to back it up. You make it sound as if all marketing is evil. This is not the case.

Without marketing, how could any company make money (ok, gasoline/oil companies don't have to market)? You wouldn't know about the products. Yes, this forum is a marketing tool. It serves several purposes besides marketing though and for that, you can thank Pearl. You don't ever have to buy a single item from Pearl to use it, and YOU DO use it.

Is there an overall marketing strategy at Pearl to sell drums? Absof***inglutely! How the hell else do you expect them to work efficiently and make money? This forum is part of it and so is every piece of carefully crafted communication that comes from the company. Your job is to filter what the machine is giving you and decide for yourself what you want to respond to and how you want to respond. Don't ***** at the company that is trying to take your money, that's their job. You hold the power though, because you have the money and you can choose what to do.

Marketing is a good thing for the company and for you and the sooner you realize that, the better. For Pearl, please stop trying to deny that there is a marketing plan involved because we are not stupid here. That you say "we have the best product" is crap (of course I don't expect you to say otherwise whether it's true or not, it is my job to do the filtering of BS). That's for us to decide and we will when you guys start shipping product.

Now, can't we all get along?

[interceptor]

That's a little harsh don't you think? Lumping ALL corporations into a sea of "faceless" evil empires? Haliburton is an evil faceless corporation, Pearl doesn't even come close.

Some of what you say is reasonable. For instance, ALL corporations have an obligation to make money, that's their sole reason for existance at some level. But don't begrudge them that. Would you go into business for any other reason? Certainly not with the goal of LOSING money! As such, marketing is a tool to help your company make money. As I, and others, have said on this thread, all the marketing in the world will not work unless you have the product to back it up. You make it sound as if all marketing is evil. This is not the case.

Without marketing, how could any company make money (ok, gasoline/oil companies don't have to market)? You wouldn't know about the products. Yes, this forum is a marketing tool. It serves several purposes besides marketing though and for that, you can thank Pearl. You don't ever have to buy a single item from Pearl to use it, and YOU DO use it.

Is there an overall marketing strategy at Pearl to sell drums? Absof***inglutely! How the hell else do you expect them to work efficiently and make money? This forum is part of it and so is every piece of carefully crafted communication that comes from the company. Your job is to filter what the machine is giving you and decide for yourself what you want to respond to and how you want to respond. Don't ***** at the company that is trying to take your money, that's their job. You hold the power though, because you have the money and you can choose what to do.

Marketing is a good thing for the company and for you and the sooner you realize that, the better. For Pearl, please stop trying to deny that there is a marketing plan involved because we are not stupid here. That you say "we have the best product" is crap (of course I don't expect you to say otherwise whether it's true or not, it is my job to do the filtering of BS). That's for us to decide and we will when you guys start shipping product.

Now, can't we all get along?

Have you actually read what I've posted? I'm not slating a company for having a marketing strategy, I'm not slating a company for having an excellent product, I'm not slating a company for having to make money, jeez!

I was having a go at Mr Pearl, earlier in this thread, because he told us that Pearl did NOT have a marketing strategy for the reference series and I was saying that Pearl DID (for the reasons I've already explained). So you have inadvertantly agreed with me and for that I thank you. :D

So the Pearl guy lying to us just proves that they are in fact just like every other faceless corporation, the difference being that they sell drums, so drummers will always be blinkered.
JPC and I obviously do take off our blinkers, maybe others could do the same once in a while.

[jpcdrummer]

I see your point Interceptor. I just wanted to point out that BS is part of the game. Our job is to respond appropriately by filtering the BS. Your point about Pearl not coming clean up front about the marketing "ploy" is true and I think I stated that in my response to you. Just goes to show what happens when the message is not "carefully crafted" by the marketing department.

We are on the same page here.

j

[interceptor]

I see your point Interceptor. I just wanted to point out that BS is part of the game. Our job is to respond appropriately by filtering the BS. Your point about Pearl not coming clean up front about the marketing "ploy" is true and I think I stated that in my response to you. Just goes to show what happens when the message is not "carefully crafted" by the marketing department.

We are on the same page here.

j

heh, very true, glad someone is! :)

[Mike Farriss]

Mate, you really are talking out of your arse.

Wow name calling how original.[/COLOR]

Marketing IS a tool to be used against the public, you apply a strategy in order for the consumer to spend their hard earned cash on your product and no-one elses.

This is a paranoid comment. Marketing is not always against something. We are talking drums here not war. We are not in this to attack or lie to our customers. If we did we would never have repeat business. That may be you business strategy but it is most certianly not ours.

Our Marketing is developed around the features and benefits of our product. We do not lower our selves to negative or smear tactics. If you have a great product there is no need to stoop to that.[/COLOR]

Which strategy you use is irrelevant, you want to sell your drums and in order to do that you need a marketing strategy.

This is the one thing you have said that I agree with. Please re-read my 2 previous posts. I did not say that we would not market this product. I said "We have no great marketing plan". There will be advertising, and product reviews on the RF Series much like with every kit we have every made. I think that when the public has the chance to play and hear the drums we will have great word of mouth about the RF kits as well.[/COLOR]

I'm not saying anything about what came first or any of that crap. The point of this is that Pearl made some new drums, they want the consumer to buy them and so a strategy is used to make the consumer believe that the Pearl product is the one to buy.

Just because Pearl are a drum company, doesn't mean they're any different from any other faceless corporation, except from the fact that a well used message board can be a powerful marketing tool instead of a sustained tv/magazine/ad campaign. Obviously the stategy used was the correct one as you can reach all of your potential customers via this message board, but does anyone know of any other drum company running their own message board?

Borad general statements like this comparing Pearl and my friends that work here to other faceless corporations is wrong. I have not passed judgement on you in this public forum even though you have called me names. All you can base your opinions on are speculations. Maybe you base your opinions on the information you have gained from text books. I think you may hve lost sight of how morals and scruples play into the equation. Everyone will not share your dim view of our intentions.[/COLOR]
My point exactly, this message board is your marketing strategy, you don't need to do anything else

You can say things like "It's all about quality and service" but every company in the world says that, whether it is true or not is irrelevant in this discussion. Like I've said before, stop patronising us.

I am trying to reach out to the people who want to share an inside look at how this product developed. I am not trying to "Patronize" anyone.[/COLOR]

[T. West]

Interceptor,
I've just read this thread and I think we have a basic miscommunication here. Mike is not telling you we will not market Reference. Of course we will. He's just trying to explain that this kit was not conceived as a thin product concept wrapped around a slick marketing ploy, and in fact, we did not have a marketing strategy in place during development. Marketing it was the last thing on our mind. We wanted to build what we thought was the best possible drum set available...period. It was truly a product concept first, and "how do we market it" came much, much, later. After all, the word of mouth from a great product, is the best marketing tool any company can have.

I think that Mike, as well as many others here at Pearl, are very proud of the amount of development and "out of the box" thinking that went into Reference. Many here, including Mike, are also very passionate about the end result that has been achieved, and when they hear comments like "lying", "BS", and "marketing ploy", they feel the need to try and give some "behind the scenes" insight about why we developed this kit, in hopes others might also understand.

The reason that the kits are not in the market at this time is not a marketing ploy, but a simple production delay. We rushed like mad to introduce Reference at NAMM, and production has simply not caught up yet.

Bottom line is this. We are all passionate about the products we produce. We think they are the best, and we believe it so strongly we give anyone, by way of this forum, the opportunity to tell the world what they think we have done wrong. I think you will agree that you have to be very confident about your products to do that, and BS wouldn't last a minute. Reference will be available very shortly. Everyone can decide for themselves...as it should be.
T. West
E.V.P.
Pearl Corporation

[jpcdrummer]

Well, the problem with this forum, and with the written word in general is that it is way to easy to attribute the most negative possible meaning to the words without the benefit of immediate evidence to the contrary. The "marketing ploy" and "BS" terms are mine. However, all I was trying to point out was that there is a marketing strategy to every product and Pearl's are no exception. We are constantly bombarded with marketing and we as consumers must seperate the chaff from the wheat.

I don't mean to imply that Pearl is not being above board with it's marketing. However, smart consumers realize they are being marketed whilst the not so smart do not. I have ordered these drums and I believe in the concept so obviously I don't believe the product to be bad. And I don't believe the marketing is bad.

You must realize that Pearl has done some strange things from our respect in the last few years. For instance, you have made Masters maple drums special order while offering covered maple drums as a stocked item. This has been a great source of confusion to those of us that want a maple drum that is not covered with plastic. I bring this up because we then have to wonder what is going on with this company whose products we love. It leads us to ask other questions like "who is manning the store?" And what is the deal with these new drums and how they are marketed in general? Not an indictment, just logical questions given the recent past.

I could be all wet here but after MRX became special order and I had to wait a year for an 8" tom, I all but swore off Pearl forever. But I am back for more with the reference series and you have a chance to win be back for life. Please look very hard at the special order status of the masters line. I find it very odd and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

And BTW, I think the quote is "It is better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"

Too late for me :D

[SLIPKNOT1]

I cannot believe how ridiculous some of the posts have been in here. I don't think i have to point how who i am reffering to. I am convinced you simply like to argue and are trying to instigate.

I know the guys at Pearl personally and i can swear to anything you ask that they are the most down to earth and sincere people i know. I have spent more time with guys then any other forum member here. There is no hidden agenda or scams. I have seen Reference kits up close, changed heads on them, tuned them and set them up. In fact, outside of the Pearl employees, i have handled more Reference kits then anyone else to date. I have nothing to gain by defending Pearl. I don't work for them. There is absolutley nothing false in their advertising. I spoke with over a dozen artists including MANY non Pearl artists who were all impressed with the series.

There are plenty of things in this world that are true marketing scams. But to imply Pearl is on that level is just idiotic. The arguments presented against Reference are all opinions. You have no facts and to try and imply you know more then Pearl about their own products shows an incredible level of ignorance.

If you want to see a true display of absolute marketing with no respect for the facts, look at Mapex. Their new "Custom" line is filled with false statements.

[T. West]

Jpc,
I understand your comments and healthy skepticism is always a good thing.

Your special order concerns are just a simple matter of current market demand. As you know, we have more options, combinations and product offerings within our Masters line than most companies have in their total catalog. This is great for consumers wanting more choices, but bad for companies trying to anticipate market demand. Believe me, we always want to stock what sells, but you can only stock so much. Hard decisions have to be made, but that's business. I agree with you that MRX is a great kit, but unfortunately, since the covered kit was new and very popular since it had been many years since Pearl offered a hi-end covered set, you and I were in the minority. So what do you do. You do what we did, and that is to react to the market by stocking what is selling while special ordering some others.

You can't be all things to all people all the time...but we desperately try. Sorry to let you down and make you wait. Thanks for giving us another chance with Reference.

Please let everyone on the forum hear your comments on your new Reference kit when it arrives.

Slip,
Good to hear from you, and thanks as usual for your help. We truly value it.

T. West
E.V.P. Pearl Corporation

[phips]

I was begining to get irratated with this thread, but with the comments of Mr. Farriss and Mr. West, all I can say is WOW. I've had good experiences with Pearl standing behind their products, and this clearly shows why. I for one appreciate the input from the Big Guns, not saying they need to chime in.Thanks again gentleman.

[Tabla_Man]

Jpc,
I understand your comments and healthy skepticism is always a good thing.

Your special order concerns are just a simple matter of current market demand. As you know, we have more options, combinations and product offerings within our Masters line than most companies have in their total catalog. This is great for consumers wanting more choices, but bad for companies trying to anticipate market demand. Believe me, we always want to stock what sells, but you can only stock so much. Hard decisions have to be made, but that's business. I agree with you that MRX is a great kit, but unfortunately, since the covered kit was new and very popular since it had been many years since Pearl offered a hi-end covered set, you and I were in the minority. So what do you do. You do what we did, and that is to react to the market by stocking what is selling while special ordering some others.

You can't be all things to all people all the time...but we desperately try. Sorry to let you down and make you wait. Thanks for giving us another chance with Reference.

Please let everyone on the forum hear your comments on your new Reference kit when it arrives.

Slip,
Good to hear from you, and thanks as usual for your help. We truly value it.

T. West
E.V.P. Pearl Corporation


It's good to see upper executives in Pearl really take an issue in what's going on. I will say one thing though, I realize Pearl can't be all things to all people, but at the same time I've seen people go away from Pearl because of long waits on special orders and various other things.

I hope that Pearl will take special consideration that people ordering from one of the high end lines are usually semi-professional to professional players, and to put an undue burden on these folks to supply the demands of the masses, I think is a mistake.

To wait a year for an 8" Masters tom as JPC describes is very excessive, don't you think? I don't know the whole story behind it, but it's one thing if somebody is wanting something you don't offer normally (i.e. discontinued color on a Masters tom), it's quite another when somebody is wanting a 8" tom in a standard color and has to wait a year for it.

I've played Pearl for over 20 years, and every time I've thought about switching to another company, Pearl comes out with a new and innovative product to keep me from straying.

I'm currently thinking of trading up my 2002 SRX for a MMX kit, primarily because I'm such a fan of the 4 ply maple as opposed to the 6 ply (I love old Slingerland kits), but I'm not going to get a wrapped kit so If I have to wait a year to get the sizes I want, then it's not worth it to me to switch (I love my Sessions by the way).

As to the other things discussed on the forum, I don't think Pearl hypes anything. I think it was Babe Ruth who said "If you can do it, it ain't bragging." Pearl has backed up everything they've "hyped" before NAMM. Last year you guys showed DW who is the king of hardware in the market, and this year you guys introduced the most different drum set on the market. I don't know if I'll ever get a Reference kit, but I know without playing it, the quality will be unmatched.

[BCC]

I believe that the Referance line is too close in price and appearance to Masterworks. I believe that they will take customers away from the Masterworks line.

When upper up's from Pearl state that "the Referance are the best drums avalible period" were in the Hell does that leave Masterworks?

[AL PERCIVAL]

I don't believe RF will hurt or take away from anything pearl markets either in mass production or special orders or Masterworks. Pearl has every corner of the drumming market covered and meets the demands of even the most discriminating drummer which is why they are the envy of just about every drum company at NAMM each year. Regarding the person who was questioning wait time on a standard 8" tom, Tama has longer waiting times even on standard orders then Pearl. I once waited 11 months for a single starclassic 18x22 kick drum in a stock color with standard chrome hardware.

Thanks to Mike Farris, T. West and Slip for their non-bias honest responses.

[BCC]

I don't believe RF will hurt or take away from anything pearl markets either in mass production or special orders or Masterworks. Pearl has every corner of the drumming market covered and meets the demands of even the most discriminating drummer which is why they are the envy of just about every drum company at NAMM each year. Regarding the person who was questioning wait time on a standard 8" tom, Tama has longer waiting times even on standard orders then Pearl. I once waited 11 months for a single starclassic 18x22 kick drum in a stock color with standard chrome hardware.

Thanks to Mike Farris, T. West and Slip for their non-bias honest responses.


I would like to believe that, I just am not so sure. When you compare the RF to the MW they cost on average (after discount) about $200.00 less for a four piece shell pack. $200.00! Why would I do that over getting a Masterworks?
The flip side is that people are lazy. Something that is "pre-packeaged" so to speak is an easier sell. I will bet that dealers will push the RF over the MF and that could hurt MF sales. Also, i really hate the fact that Pearl came out with an exclusive lug for the MW only to turn around a year later and slap them on the RF. I will never buy an RF, because I don't feel that saving $200.00 is worth all of the limitations.

[AL PERCIVAL]

I agree that the pre-pack'd RF series will be more available providing faster turn around on orders (less waiting time). I still don't believe the sales of
RF series will hurt the 20% of people that are going to buy a Masterworks
kit anyway. I tend to agree with you on the RF series lugs thingy although I guess the reasoning behind it was their concept of Reference being somewhat parallel to masterworks in shell selection and shell type only pre-package for you. Market demands will tell what sells and what doesn't and what Pearl should stock and what not to stock, we'll see over the next 8-10 months and who knows you may be right. ;)

[entropy]

I cannot believe how ridiculous some of the posts have been in here. I don't think i have to point how who i am reffering to. I am convinced you simply like to argue and are trying to instigate.

I know the guys at Pearl personally and i can swear to anything you ask that they are the most down to earth and sincere people i know. I have spent more time with guys then any other forum member here. There is no hidden agenda or scams. I have seen Reference kits up close, changed heads on them, tuned them and set them up. In fact, outside of the Pearl employees, i have handled more Reference kits then anyone else to date. I have nothing to gain by defending Pearl. I don't work for them. There is absolutley nothing false in their advertising. I spoke with over a dozen artists including MANY non Pearl artists who were all impressed with the series.

There are plenty of things in this world that are true marketing scams. But to imply Pearl is on that level is just idiotic. The arguments presented against Reference are all opinions. You have no facts and to try and imply you know more then Pearl about their own products shows an incredible level of ignorance.

If you want to see a true display of absolute marketing with no respect for the facts, look at Mapex. Their new "Custom" line is filled with false statements.




Slip you are so very knowledgeable in the true sense of helping people get exactly what they want and informing them with every angle. I think anyone bashing slip should seriously think before they post he is just like the library of congress he has information anyone would see it if they look hard enough. Its available everywhere.... But I would like to here the false statements in the Mapex catalog i looked a few over some seem a little shaddy but id like slip to shed his spotlight on the topic..

[jpcdrummer]

It's good to see upper executives in Pearl really take an issue in what's going on. I will say one thing though, I realize Pearl can't be all things to all people, but at the same time I've seen people go away from Pearl because of long waits on special orders and various other things.

I hope that Pearl will take special consideration that people ordering from one of the high end lines are usually semi-professional to professional players, and to put an undue burden on these folks to supply the demands of the masses, I think is a mistake.

To wait a year for an 8" Masters tom as JPC describes is very excessive, don't you think? I don't know the whole story behind it, but it's one thing if somebody is wanting something you don't offer normally (i.e. discontinued color on a Masters tom), it's quite another when somebody is wanting a 8" tom in a standard color and has to wait a year for it.

I've played Pearl for over 20 years, and every time I've thought about switching to another company, Pearl comes out with a new and innovative product to keep me from straying.

I'm currently thinking of trading up my 2002 SRX for a MMX kit, primarily because I'm such a fan of the 4 ply maple as opposed to the 6 ply (I love old Slingerland kits), but I'm not going to get a wrapped kit so If I have to wait a year to get the sizes I want, then it's not worth it to me to switch (I love my Sessions by the way).

As to the other things discussed on the forum, I don't think Pearl hypes anything. I think it was Babe Ruth who said "If you can do it, it ain't bragging." Pearl has backed up everything they've "hyped" before NAMM. Last year you guys showed DW who is the king of hardware in the market, and this year you guys introduced the most different drum set on the market. I don't know if I'll ever get a Reference kit, but I know without playing it, the quality will be unmatched.

Since you asked, here are the details of the 8" tom debacle. I bought an MRX kit in 2001 in platinum mist. In 2002 I ordered a BRX kit in identical sizes but in wine red. In 2003 I decided that I wanted 8x7 toms for both kits. I ordered them in September of 2003. I received the BRX tom in about 6 months but the MRX tom wasn't coming. Finally the store called me and said they had the tom but it was an 8x8 instead of 8x7. This was probably 7 months after I ordered it. I told them I didn't want an 8x8 and continued to wait. Finally the drum showed up in August 2004, probably just under a year after I had ordered it.

Now, I know anomalies happen but at the time, the store was frustrated with Pearl and with the special order status of Masters drums. As I said earlier in this thread, this soured me on Pearl and I still say the if there was a viable alternative, I would take it. However, try as I may, I don't see anything better out there (folks, please don't inundate me with your opinions here).

The latest frustration with Pearl deals with parts. For my MRX kit, I wanted to update the drums to the latest parts with the rubber gaskets and stainless steel T rods. It took so long to get the 8" tom that it has all the newer parts. So, I went to the parts catalog which is available on line and looked up the parts. I then called the store I do business with and asked them to price out everything. To my dismay, I was called back and told that these parts are not in the Pearl system and it would take maybe 6 months for that to happen. Now, WHY are these parts listed in the catalog if they are not available?

This is what I am talking about. Pearl makes a great product, nobody disputes that. In fact, for me, it is the best on the market. But I have to seriously question the managment of the organization when it appears the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing? I will continue to buy Pearl products but I have a caveat for anybody who is considering a kit purchase from the company. ORDER EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU MIGHT POSSIBLY WANT AT ONCE! Because when you decide later that you want an additional tom, it will take months and then it will be slightly different from what you already have. Maybe other drum companies work this way too, hell, I have no idea. I have never ordered drums from anybody else. The reference series kit I have ordered is the 4th high end kit I have purchased from Pearl and only the 5th drum kit I have (will) owned in 26 years of playing.

I am devoted to Pearl shells and some of their hardware but the company is not what we (I am in the management consulting industry) would call "world class" when it comes to having their CRM (customer relationship management) poop together. I base this on the tom ordering and the recent parts confusion. Pearl is lucky that the product is so good, otherwise, some of us high end customers would be looking elsewhere.

Just my opinion, sorry for the long rant.

[AL PERCIVAL]

Wow!, first off, very sorry to hear about your drum and hardware mix ups.

You know, I ordered Pearl upgraded Masters hardware for a keller kit I bought for my church. I too, got the parts out of the catelog and ordered them through Andy @ Massmusic.net in Arizona. The hardware, all t-rods, with brass receivers, lugs all arrived less than a months wait. Andy didn't have them "In stock" at his Store, but when he called Pearl in Nashville, they had them in stock in their inventory, so I got them in less than a months time.

Really sorry to hear about your problems. Best of luck to you going forward in the future.

[augie]

>If you want to see a true display of absolute marketing with no respect for the facts, look at Mapex. Their new "Custom" line is filled with false statements.

Just curious as to what they falsely stated?
What page at the Mapex site do you find "Custom" drums on also?

Thanks

[jpcdrummer]

Aperciva,

I should point out that the complete lugs are available. I just wanted the rubber gaskets because I don't need to replace any lugs. The parts and part numbers are in the catalog but, sadly, not available. Pearl still has some work to do.

Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Pearl drums and can't wait to get my REF kit. Just saying Pearl has some issues. Even though they may tell everyone they are customer focused, they aren't being completely honest with themselves. And that is why the marketing flap here rings for me.

j

[Mike Farriss]

Aperciva,

I should point out that the complete lugs are available. I just wanted the rubber gaskets because I don't need to replace any lugs. The parts and part numbers are in the catalog but, sadly, not available. Pearl still has some work to do.

Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Pearl drums and can't wait to get my REF kit. Just saying Pearl has some issues. Even though they may tell everyone they are customer focused, they aren't being completely honest with themselves. And that is why the marketing flap here rings for me.

j

JPC

We have stock on the SST5047/6 and more on the way in April and May. Which dealer is giving you this incorrect information? I am checking on the gaskets....

[AL PERCIVAL]

Aperciva,

I should point out that the complete lugs are available. I just wanted the rubber gaskets because I don't need to replace any lugs. The parts and part numbers are in the catalog but, sadly, not available. Pearl still has some work to do.

Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Pearl drums and can't wait to get my REF kit. Just saying Pearl has some issues. Even though they may tell everyone they are customer focused, they aren't being completely honest with themselves. And that is why the marketing flap here rings for me.

j


I hear where you're coming from, and with all your series of problems and frustrations, first off, my hat's off to you for sticking with Pearl and ordering a RF series.

I think as Mike Farris stated those gasket covers are available. Maybe shoot Mike a PM, get the correct info and you should be able to place your order for the gaskets. Good luck to you my friend. And for God's sake, when your reference series arrives, post pic's and your personal information on the looks, sound quality. Take care! :)

[jpcdrummer]

aperciva,

I have taken your advice and sent Mike a message. Not sure why I didn't think of doing this before. 00**

Anyway, you will definitely get pictures when the drums arrive and a complete review. I hope to use them at a gig we have scheduled for June 4 and/or the weekend after that.

Can't wait!

j

P.S. I think it is time to end this thread. I never agreed with the original post to begin with and we've totally gotten away from that topic anyhow. Some good did come out of it as I have gotten in touch with Mike and I suspect he will help me with my gasket problem (sounds personal no?). So this is me, signing off this thread.

Ciao!

[Pearldrummer10]

you will be missed jpc......you will be missed.........

[SteelProphet]

I wasn't impressed by reference series at all. :rolleyes: :confused:

[Mike Farriss]

I wasn't impressed by reference series at all. :rolleyes: :confused:

SteelProphet

I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. I really am interested in your opinion. When and where did you try one? What was it that you didn't like?

I am sorry to hear you didn't like it.

[Demfer]

Hey Mike I have a 5 peice on order to arrive around early june. 10, 12, 14, 16, 18x22. There was no way for me to try out the kit so this is a huge gamble for me and just shows my trust in quality from pearl corp. Is the same heat compression system used to bind the plys togeather that you guys use for all the series? Im thinking because of the diffrent wood/ply combos that there might be somthing else in play to enshure the diffrent types of woods really "melt" togeather to create this "Superior accustics"

[Mike Farriss]

Hey Mike I have a 5 peice on order to arrive around early june. 10, 12, 14, 16, 18x22. There was no way for me to try out the kit so this is a huge gamble for me and just shows my trust in quality from pearl corp. Is the same heat compression system used to bind the plys togeather that you guys use for all the series? Im thinking because of the diffrent wood/ply combos that there might be somthing else in play to enshure the diffrent types of woods really "melt" togeather to create this "Superior accustics"

DEMFER

I hope you get a chance soon. We will be sending 10 or so kits out very soon to be displays in major markets across the US. I hope one is in a store near you. We are very excited to have people from all over play and hear these drums up close. I am setting up a kit in the showroom here at Pearl this week to test head combos on. We will keep you posted on the forum when we send the kits out.

The shell process is the same as MasterWorks,and Masters. You are right it is our HCSM system. I loved working with this kit at NAMM. I don't think you will be unhappy.

[Demfer]

DEMFER

I hope you get a chance soon. We will be sending 10 or so kits out very soon to be displays in major markets across the US. I hope one is in a store near you. We are very excited to have people from all over play and hear these drums up close. I am setting up a kit in the showroom here at Pearl this week to test head combos on. We will keep you posted on the forum when we send the kits out.

The shell process is the same as MasterWorks,and Masters. You are right it is our HCSM system. I loved working with this kit at NAMM. I don't think you will be unhappy.

Thanks Mike.

[AL PERCIVAL]

you will be missed jpc......you will be missed.........

I think jpc just meant he's signing off from "this thread", not the entire
pearl drummers forum. He can't!!!!!!!!! We won't let him!, he still has to show's pic's of his reference series RF kit he ordered.... :D !!!!!

[Just_Dan]

hey mike will there be any reference series getting sent over here in england any were in know its outta my price range but if i hear it i mite save till im 25.

[Mike Farriss]

hey mike will there be any reference series getting sent over here in england any were in know its outta my price range but if i hear it i mite save till im 25.

Acid

I don't know what Pearl Europe has in mind. I am sorry but I am not involved with their planning. I will try to find out and let you know.

[DED]

Wow, this is certainly a lot of activity and opinion for a drum line that very few people have actually seen and heard. Of course once people have a chance to sample a kit in person they won't have to resort to attacking Pearl on their marketing or concepts.

Frankly, anyone gullible enough to be swayed by marketing on a high-end product is a fool. Regardless of the product, an informed consumer will see beyond hype and make their purchasing decisions on criteria that has value to them.

You can improve your market share and increase a product's visability with powerful marketing but ultimately if your product does not perform up to par, your sales will suffer.

[Pearldrummer10]

rep for u

[Zalastri]

Wow, this is certainly a lot of activity and opinion for a drum line that very few people have actually seen and heard. Of course once people have a chance to sample a kit in person they won't have to resort to attacking Pearl on their marketing or concepts.

Frankly, anyone gullible enough to be swayed by marketing on a high-end product is a fool. Regardless of the product, an informed consumer will see beyond hype and make their purchasing decisions on criteria that has value to them.

You can improve your market share and increase a product's visability with powerful marketing but ultimately if your product does not perform up to par, your sales will suffer.

I dont mean to personally attack your opinion, but the original topic was not intended to be about the sound of the drum or the look of the drum. And many people are swayed by marketing like that, mabye they're all fools, but marketing is made to be incredibly persuasive since it's real motive is just to make a buck for the company... just following up a pretty sucessfull thread.

[DED]

I dont mean to personally attack your opinion, but the original topic was not intended to be about the sound of the drum or the look of the drum. And many people are swayed by marketing like that, mabye they're all fools, but marketing is made to be incredibly persuasive since it's real motive is just to make a buck for the company... just following up a pretty sucessfull thread.


No offense taken. . .I'll follow up.

I don't begrudge any company looking to make a profit. Using marketing to create a buzz and convince potential customers to buy your product is not in and of itself a bad thing. There is nothing devious about marketing as long as the information you provide the customers is accurate.

Sometimes you need marketing to help your product stand out among a field of identical products. Creating and supporting a 'brand' is important when what you're selling has no clear advantage over the competing product.

Now when it comes to something like a drum, it’s just plain stupid to simply say “we make the best sounding drum”. Sound is a very subjective thing, what sounds good to me may not sound so good to you. If you’re going to promote a new drum line you’re going have to focus on why the instrument should enable the user to get a sound they like.

In the case of Pearl’s Reference series, they have gone to great lengths to clearly detail the concept and why it should result in a great sounding drum set and that seems to be pretty responsible marketing to me.

Anyone with the resources to purchase a high-end drum set is probably (hopefully) immune to manipulative marketing and if they are not, well, a fool and his money are soon parted, eh?