DCI Tryout tips

[hairmetal90]

After much thought I have decided to try out for Capital Regiment. I play snare and I know have to improve a lot if I'm even going to be considered for their snare line. So I was wondering if you guys could give me some hints and tips for practicing and improving my technique?

[Mr. Intensity]

One of the most important things, other than knowing the music inside and out, is being able to stay positive with any critism they give you. They're looking for you to adapt your playing to what they want, often times that means changing the way you might play or look or stand.

If you can, try to find videos of the drumline while they're playing and match the style they play with. Examples are if you're auditioning with the Bluecoats, like myself, you'll want to have that bit of arrogance with your playing, maybe throw some slice in there for some power. Maybe if it were SCV, you'd practice the push-pull and work on the moeller stroke to look as relaxed as you can be when you play. If anything, watching videos has probably helped me the most because I can see what they're doing and I can match their technique and their style.

Make sure you can mark time to anything they throw out at you...thats a biggy. Practice with a met and practice with a drum as much as you can. You're probably not going to be marching with the drum on, but be able to in the even that they ask you to.

One of the things I found out the hard way was that your individual audition is the most critical part of your first audition. You want to make it as strong as possible so that when you're in the ensemble you can really show off your listening skills. My individuals weren't that great because I wasn't sure of what it would be like, so now that I know to push harder there I can make that section of my audition better.

Oh a side note, have a positive attitude throughout the whole camp, if you're negative they'll know, if you're cocky, they'll know...those don't really look too good to them as qualities they want in a marching member. Check to make sure you have everything you need when you go as well, bring a couple of pencils for marking changes to the music and make sure you have your music and a good pair of sticks.

I'm probably forgetting a few things here and there, I know theres a member of the forum who marching Carolina Crown last year, maybe he can pop in and give some more suggestions. Hope this helps man.

[Mr. Hadouken]

Really I'm just going to say just go. There is a lot you can learn even if you don't make it. Then (I assume if you aren't too old) practice hard and go next year. Or join a DCA All-age corps. They are cheaper and well if you don't have a lot of time to put into a Div 1-3 corps they only practice every other weekend.

[vicfirthrules10]

ok. sure you have to be able to mark time to everything. but Cap has a couple exercises with 7/8 in it. i can't figure out how it would fit with feet. because the "eight on the hand" goes 7/8, to 3/4, to 4/4. it's weird, they call it 7-6-8. any ideas?

[Mr. Hadouken]

ok. sure you have to be able to mark time to everything. but Cap has a couple exercises with 7/8 in it. i can't figure out how it would fit with feet. because the "eight on the hand" goes 7/8, to 3/4, to 4/4. it's weird, they call it 7-6-8. any ideas?

7/8 is weird, i wrote my drumline's 8 on a hand 4/4-7/8-4/4 and well with 7/8 eight you're forced to march/mark time with your right foot, but it usually switches back to the left foot.

[hairmetal90]

Cool thanks guys. One thing I'm really worried about is stick heights. For the longest time I never really gave any thought to them and what are some things I can do to work on them.

[Mr. Hadouken]

Cool thanks guys. One thing I'm really worried about is stick heights. For the longest time I never really gave any thought to them and what are some things I can do to work on them.

practice in front of a mirror.

[AJH123]

practice in front of a mirror.

You also kinda have to just think about the different heights.

If you still can't figure out good heights, get out a ruler, do:

3"- pianissimo to about piano
6"- mezzo-piano to about mezzo-forte
9"- mezzo-forte to about forte
12"- forte to about fortissimo
15"- fortissimo to ffff or whatever crazy volume


and just practice from there. Don't do any crazy exercises though, just do like 8's or whatever.

[Mr. Intensity]

You also kinda have to just think about the different heights.

If you still can't figure out good heights, get out a ruler, do:

3"- pianissimo to about piano
6"- mezzo-piano to about mezzo-forte
9"- mezzo-forte to about forte
12"- forte to about fortissimo
15"- fortissimo to ffff or whatever crazy volume


and just practice from there. Don't do any crazy exercises though, just do like 8's or whatever.

This works great if that's the system the corps you're auditioning for. For instance, Bluecoats height system is:
1"- ppp- Grace notes
2"- pp- delicate passages
4"- p- common inner beat height
8"- mp
12"- mf
16"- f
20"-ff- Sticks vertical
Anything above 20" will be defined for visual effect

But, in light of me stabbing an example as such into the mix; AJH is 100% correct on thinking of heights as such. Trying to find a specific volume is waaay to hard when you have 7-10 guys playing the same part, so using the inch system is a much better way to get more defined looks.

[Mr. Hadouken]

This works great if that's the system the corps you're auditioning for. For instance, Bluecoats height system is:
1"- ppp- Grace notes
2"- pp- delicate passages
4"- p- common inner beat height
8"- mp
12"- mf
16"- f
20"-ff- Sticks vertical
Anything above 20" will be defined for visual effect

But, in light of me stabbing an example as such into the mix; AJH is 100% correct on thinking of heights as such. Trying to find a specific volume is waaay to hard when you have 7-10 guys playing the same part, so using the inch system is a much better way to get more defined looks.

:eek: that's a crazy system. For my line I use
3'' p - at the edge (for basses just under the rim at the top)
6'' mp - between edge and center
9" mf - center of the head.
12'' f
above 12'' is visual.

[Mr. Intensity]

:eek: that's a crazy system. For my line I use
3'' p - at the edge (for basses just under the rim at the top)
6'' mp - between edge and center
9" mf - center of the head.
12'' f
above 12'' is visual.

Haha, I was used to your system, but we did all of our dynamics in the center of the head, edge was used as a sound effect rather than a dynamic.

Then I graduated and learned how to play like the Bluecoats...I mean, if I want to march with them I need to play like them. I actually like the 'Coats system much more now that I've played like that for awhile.

[hairmetal90]

Awesome thanks guys. Keep the tips coming. I read about Capital Regiment's technique and it said to avoid pounding and "tight" playing. What do they mean by "tight" playing?

[Mr. Intensity]

Awesome thanks guys. Keep the tips coming. I read about Capital Regiment's technique and it said to avoid pounding and "tight" playing. What do they mean by "tight" playing?

Probably has something to do with choking off the stick. If you don't let the stick breathe in your hand you get a choked off sound from the drum because the stick has to vibrate in order for a fuller sound to be brought out of the drum.

[Mr. Hadouken]

....you thanked me but gave me negative feed back?

[hairmetal90]

Oh sorry dude I clicked the on the wrong thing... I tried to give you positive rep but it wouldn't let me.

[Mr. Hadouken]

Oh sorry dude I clicked the on the wrong thing... I tried to give you positive rep but it wouldn't let me.

Okay, just making sure it wasn't on purpose. No problems.

[Talon]

Don't give up! Chris (the guy who marched Crown this summer) came from a military marching band and he ended up signing with Crown pit despite the setbacks. One of my friends got completely crushed by 'Coats his first year trying out but went back the next year fully prepared to make it, and he did. Just aged out this year IIRC.

[AJH123]

Don't give up! Chris (the guy who marched Crown this summer) came from a military marching band and he ended up signing with Crown pit despite the setbacks. One of my friends got completely crushed by 'Coats his first year trying out but went back the next year fully prepared to make it, and he did. Just aged out this year IIRC.

Yes; I've seen people say that don't expect to make a Corps. line the first time (unless they really see something in you), line just because you are the best in your school or whatever. Just be all ears, learn as much as you can from them, change anything they want changed, and try again the next year, if you don't make it.


Also, having prior corps. experience is a huge plus. Open Class, DCA, whatever, will show that you have a bit more experience than others.

[hairmetal90]

Yes; I've seen people say that don't expect to make a Corps. line the first time (unless they really see something in you), line just because you are the best in your school or whatever. Just be all ears, learn as much as you can from them, change anything they want changed, and try again the next year, if you don't make it.


Also, having prior corps. experience is a huge plus. Open Class, DCA, whatever, will show that you have a bit more experience than others.

Yeah I'm just going to go in as prepared as I can be. If I don't make it I'll try out it again and work even harder.

[Mr Johnson]

Some good pointers regarding playing in this thread, but I'll add one from a different angle - attitude. Regardless of how good you think your are (or are not) don't get caught up in your ego and sit in the corner all summer if you get cut from your dream corps this fall. I've seen way too many kids over the years say "I'm going to make the snare line with [Insert Corps Name Here] this year..." Then they go to camp and get cut from the line before they've even had their Thanksgiving turkey and proceed to sit on their butt until the following August, then practice hard for a few months and the process is repeated with the exact same unhappy results.

I've told many players this one simple fact - There is a spot for EVERYONE in drum corps who has the desire and the attitude to find it and stick with it. The folks that tech the top lines have seen it all and they've seen literally thousands of drummers standing in front of them over the years. They can look at you for five minutes and 99% of time will know right then and there if you have a shot for their line or not (and they may tell you so just that quickly).

If you get cut from one line, go audition with another and keep doing so until you find a line that you fit with. You may have dreams of marching a top 12 DCI line, but don't let that stop you from marching DCI Open or DCA just because you got cut. I don't care what DCI line you play with, you're going to arrive in August with way better chops that any amount of practicing you could do at home on your own, plus you've got marching experiance under your belt. And showing up at auditions with carrier tan never hurts either. ;)

As someone who has marched DCI and DCA, I always recommend that players go the DCI route if they can from an age and $$$ stand point. DCA will always be there down the road, but it also makes a great training ground to get experiance while you hold a Monday thru Friday summer job. I marched with kids in DCA that went on to march Scouts, Cavies, Phantom, etc. They used it as a way to get experiance and get better. DCA will never be the same as the DCI tour experiance. There is nothing like spending three solid months with the same group of people regardless of what group you are with. You will learn to eat, sleep, drum and breathe as a unit and you're playing will come out so much better at the other end. Playing 8-10 hours a day for 90 days in a row, how could it not?

In the end you may find a home where you never even expected it to be. My first year I thought I would use DCI Open class as a stepping stone to a top 12 corps. Yet in the end, after only one season the thought never again crossed my mind to go audition with another group. My corps was my family and I just kept going back year after year until I aged out. People often ask me if I think I missed out because I didn't end up in a World Class line before I aged out and I tell them all the same thing - given the chance to do it all over, I would do the exact same thing. For me it wasn't about being in a certain line, it was about the family you become through all the long days in the sun (and the rain) wearing out football fields all over North America.

In summary, relax, enjoy your auditions (regardless of the results), and keep auditioning until you find a line, any line, and then go have a blast next summer!

Ryan J

[hairmetal90]

As of now Capital Regiment is an open class corps. Are open class corps easier to get into than a world class corps? I'm just asking because you mentioned going from an open class corps to a world class corps as if that was a starting point for you. I haven't decided what I'm going to do. The whole open class verses world class thing isn't that important to me. I just really want to march in a corps and be with the same people for three months like you were talking about. I just that would be amazing to be with other musicians who want to work 110% all of the time because I've never been in a situation like that before and experienced perfection. In high school every one just half-a**ed everything so that it was "good enough". It was mediocrity. I also played in a band and it was the same situation. So I would just love to be in a situation where everyone is willing to work as hard as I will.

[AJH123]

As of now Capital Regiment is an open class corps. Are open class corps easier to get into than a world class corps? I'm just asking because you mentioned going from an open class corps to a world class corps as if that was a starting point for you. I haven't decided what I'm going to do. The whole open class verses world class thing isn't that important to me. I just really want to march in a corps and be with the same people for three months like you were talking about. I just that would be amazing to be with other musicians who want to work 110% all of the time because I've never been in a situation like that before and experienced perfection. In high school every one just half-a**ed everything so that it was "good enough". It was mediocrity. I also played in a band and it was the same situation. So I would just love to be in a situation where everyone is willing to work as hard as I will.

You'll have a slightly better chance, but it still won't be easy to get on the snareline or whatever. You still have to work hard.

[hairmetal90]

I see. This was a pretty recent decision so I won't have the months to get ready like everyone is saying for me to be adequately prepared so like I said I'm just going to work hard these couple of months and be as prepared as I can be. Right now I'm planning on getting an invader practice pad since it won't be feasible to practice on a real drum at college although I'm still worried that it will be kind of loud because all the reviews I've read have said that the pad is still kind of loud... So I hope it's not too loud on my dorm because the room right next mine is the RA's which sucks lol.

[Mr. Hadouken]

I see. This was a pretty recent decision so I won't have the months to get ready like everyone is saying for me to be adequately prepared so like I said I'm just going to work hard these couple of months and be as prepared as I can be. Right now I'm planning on getting an invader practice pad since it won't be feasible to practice on a real drum at college although I'm still worried that it will be kind of loud because all the reviews I've read have said that the pad is still kind of loud... So I hope it's not too loud on my dorm because the room right next mine is the RA's which sucks lol.

Have you thought of maybe going for the bassline? And if you get that you can learn with the snares and then audition for snareline next year! Just an idea. I learned a lot from the snares in Carolina Gold when I marched, hung out with a dude we called frodo he was obsessed with SCV so I learned a lot of SCV things with him. Then the Snare Tech I hung out with after practices, he marched Madison Scouts snare line. Then our Bass Tech marched Cadets learned some awesome warmups.

Oh and as of Practice pad's I have a Real Feel (double Side) and a Vic Firth Heavy Hitter Slim pad they're pretty amazing! Invader practice pad looks like the rims could chip and break over time.

Edit: just read Mr Intensity's review says it's pretty good, so if you got the money go for it.

[Mr. Intensity]

Have you thought of maybe going for the bassline? And if you get that you can learn with the snares and then audition for snareline next year! Just an idea. I learned a lot from the snares in Carolina Gold when I marched, hung out with a dude we called frodo he was obsessed with SCV so I learned a lot of SCV things with him. Then the Snare Tech I hung out with after practices, he marched Madison Scouts snare line. Then our Bass Tech marched Cadets learned some awesome warmups.

Oh and as of Practice pad's I have a Real Feel (double Side) and a Vic Firth Heavy Hitter Slim pad they're pretty amazing! Invader practice pad looks like the rims could chip and break over time.

I'm not going to add anything as far as you guys discussing the tryouts...you're all pretty much rockin' and rollin' there, but I will correct you on the Invader pad. Your rim will chip and break....if you hit the damn thing with a hammer and then run it over with a truck. It's a very solid pad, you will not break that thing under normal use at all.

[Mr. Hadouken]

I'm not going to add anything as far as you guys discussing the tryouts...you're all pretty much rockin' and rollin' there, but I will correct you on the Invader pad. Your rim will chip and break....if you hit the damn thing with a hammer and then run it over with a truck. It's a very solid pad, you will not break that thing under normal use at all.

Yeah just went off looks. It was something that would stop me from buying if there were no reviews.

Also for the OP http://www.jaredoleary.com/Drumline_Sheet_Music.html and www.Snarescience.com These sites have great exercises.

[The Dreaming Tree]

Try showing up drunk. It'll send the right message! :D

[hairmetal90]

Have you thought of maybe going for the bassline? And if you get that you can learn with the snares and then audition for snareline next year! Just an idea. I learned a lot from the snares in Carolina Gold when I marched, hung out with a dude we called frodo he was obsessed with SCV so I learned a lot of SCV things with him. Then the Snare Tech I hung out with after practices, he marched Madison Scouts snare line. Then our Bass Tech marched Cadets learned some awesome warmups.

Oh and as of Practice pad's I have a Real Feel (double Side) and a Vic Firth Heavy Hitter Slim pad they're pretty amazing! Invader practice pad looks like the rims could chip and break over time.

Edit: just read Mr Intensity's review says it's pretty good, so if you got the money go for it.


For me the bass line is out of the question because I can't subdivide sextuplets and 16th notes at the tempos the corps do... It's out of this world what the basses in a corps do and there's no way I could do it. Anyway as far as practice materials go I've been practicing electric wheelchair, flam i am, latin lover 2006, and double beat 2004 to help me with my chops. Capital Regiment hasn't released the materials for the 2010 season yet so I've been practicing those cadences for now.

[Mr. Hadouken]

For me the bass line is out of the question because I can't subdivide sextuplets and 16th notes at the tempos the corps do to play... It's out of this world what the basses in a corps and there's no way I could do it. Anyway as far as practice materials go I've been practicing electric wheelchair, flam i am, latin lover 2006, and double beat 2004 to help me with my chops. Capital Regiment hasn't released the materials for the 2010 season yet so I've been practices those cadences for now.

I have a love for the bassline, It's really all i watch or listen out for. When I was on bass 10th grade 11th grade, and in Carolina gold, I don't know why but i had to learn everybodys parts for me to have learned it. I found out most people don't/can't do that, but they can count their music.... i can't.

[vicfirthrules10]

when i played bass in 9th grade i learned all 4 our parts because it made it easier. and plus our percussion director wants our basses to know all the parts so they know how they fit. it's much better to know everyone's parts in my opinion too.

and hairmetal90, Cap still has their exercises that they used for the 2009 season auditions so you could practice those. i will see you there at the auditions hopefully. it's just my mom for some reason can't stand me driving to columbus for 2 hours but was fine with me driving 30 minutes home at 4 in the morning. lol. good luck to the both of us.

[hairmetal90]

I can count the music it's that when there's a sixteenth note pattern where I would be be on the e's and the a's I always get off and start playing on the 1's and the an's... Vicfithrules10 that's great that you're trying out to. Hopefully we will see each other there. For me driving is an issue as well because I'm going to Ohio University and freshman aren't allowed to have cars so I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to get to Columbus. That's also why I'm trying out for Capital Regiment beacause it's closer than Canton or Toledo because I was originally considering the Bluecoats but that's like a 4 hour drive from Athens to Canton.

[FFXS_89_08_CHS]

I'm not going to add anything as far as you guys discussing the tryouts...you're all pretty much rockin' and rollin' there, but I will correct you on the Invader pad. Your rim will chip and break....if you hit the damn thing with a hammer and then run it over with a truck. It's a very solid pad, you will not break that thing under normal use at all.

well, i can't speak for the v3, but my v2 has cracks all around the rim. from about 8 months of use. the good thing is that the only thing that will crack and pull away is the inner half of the rim. well, not really even the rim, but the black coating that covers it (and covers the whole pad) when it comes up you can see the inner shell the whole pad is made from. extremely sturdy, aqua greenish-blue very dense hard plastic. but the outer half of the rim, the coating is glued on so tight, it's not going anywhere. I'll get some pics up soon so you can see.


AJ

[Mr. Intensity]

well, i can't speak for the v3, but my v2 has cracks all around the rim. from about 8 months of use. the good thing is that the only thing that will crack and pull away is the inner half of the rim. well, not really even the rim, but the black coating that covers it (and covers the whole pad) when it comes up you can see the inner shell the whole pad is made from. extremely sturdy, aqua greenish-blue very dense hard plastic. but the outer half of the rim, the coating is glued on so tight, it's not going anywhere. I'll get some pics up soon so you can see.


AJ

The V2 will have that happen, unfortunately.

Listen, email Offworld, send them pics of the pad, they'll send you a V3 free of charge.

[vicfirthrules10]

I can count the music it's that when there's a sixteenth note pattern where I would be be on the e's and the a's I always get off and start playing on the 1's and the an's... Vicfithrules10 that's great that you're trying out to. Hopefully we will see each other there. For me driving is an issue as well because I'm going to Ohio University and freshman aren't allowed to have cars so I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to get to Columbus. That's also why I'm trying out for Capital Regiment beacause it's closer than Canton or Toledo because I was originally considering the Bluecoats but that's like a 4 hour drive from Athens to Canton.
yeah. for me it's between the blue stars who does all of their pre-season stuff in indianapolis fairgrounds which is an hour and a half, glassmen in toledo - 3.5 hours, bluecoats in canton - 4 hours, and then capital in columbus - 2 hours. my percussion director told me to go to capital because i would learn more than i would at blue stars (not putting the blue stars down though, i plan on trying out there next year when i'll be farther away from columbus with college.) i would absolutely love to be a part of the bluecoats but i'm not sure i'd make it. and i would audition for both blue stars and capital but they have the same audition weekend.

[Mr. Hadouken]

yeah. for me it's between the blue stars who does all of their pre-season stuff in indianapolis fairgrounds which is an hour and a half, glassmen in toledo - 3.5 hours, bluecoats in canton - 4 hours, and then capital in columbus - 2 hours. my percussion director told me to go to capital because i would learn more than i would at blue stars (not putting the blue stars down though, i plan on trying out there next year when i'll be farther away from columbus with college.) i would absolutely love to be a part of the bluecoats but i'm not sure i'd make it. and i would audition for both blue stars and capital but they have the same audition weekend.

I see you are looking at Blue Star, and they're in WI. So..... why no Scouts or Pioneer?!?!?!

[vicfirthrules10]

i'm only looking at blue stars because they have their auditions in indy and all of their camps in indy along with the pre-tour camp. it's weird.

but one of my best friends played vibes in their pit this year. (she's the cover picture for the blue stars on vic firths website.) the camera guy really seemed to like her she's got 3 of the 10 or so pictures on there. lol.

[FFXS_89_08_CHS]

The V2 will have that happen, unfortunately.

Listen, email Offworld, send them pics of the pad, they'll send you a V3 free of charge.

I emailed them last week, unfortunately, no response.

[Mr. Intensity]

I emailed them last week, unfortunately, no response.

Hmm...weird. Just wondering, did you email Paul or Dave? I emailed Paul about everything, he's been my go to guy ever since I ordered on of the V2's. Cool dude, he knows how to do business.

[FFXS_89_08_CHS]

um, i just emailed offworldpercussion@gmail.com or whatever it is. the one on the site.

[Mr. Intensity]

um, i just emailed offworldpercussion@gmail.com or whatever it is. the one on the site.

Ahh, okay. Check your PM's

[hairmetal90]

I just ordered my invader. How loud is the pad? Noise the only thing I'm worried about since my RA's room in the next room over. I don't want to annoy anyone while I'm practicing. If that's they case I'll have to go back to my rhythm coach and getting pad hands :-(. That's the last thing I need to deal with for my audition lol.

[Mr. Hadouken]

I say it's about as loud as the black side of an HQ Real feel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQIX-gbm2do

[hairmetal90]

I also have another question regarding double-stroke technique. I was taught to do double-stroke rolls by pretty much bounching the stick and using that rebound to get the second stroke. I have them sounding even so I don't really need to improve them except building my chops up for faster tempos. It's just that there a so many ways of doing them and I was wondering if I would have to learn and completely new technique for doing my double-stroke roll? I heard that a lot of corps do double-stroke rolls by just using their wrists in fingers rather than just bounching the stick like I do. Also would you recommend I have another pad to practice with during the quiet hours like a real feel or something because I'm a night owl and I practice a lot at night as well as during the day? My rhythm coach is alright it's just the rebound and feel isn't realistic and I have pad hands pretty bad when I go to an actual marching snare.

[Mr. Hadouken]

I also have another question regarding double-stroke technique. I was taught to do double-stroke rolls by pretty much bounching the stick and using that rebound to get the second stroke. I have them sounding even so I don't really need to improve them except building my chops up for faster tempos. It's just that there a so many ways of doing them and I was wondering if I would have to learn and completely new technique for doing my double-stroke roll? I heard that a lot of corps do double-stroke rolls by just using their wrists in fingers rather than just bounching the stick like I do. Also would you recommend I have another pad to practice with during the quiet hours like a real feel or something because I'm a night owl and I practice a lot at night as well as during the day? My rhythm coach is alright it's just the rebound and feel isn't realistic and I have pad hands pretty bad when I go to an actual marching snare.

Hmmmm I use all fingers; Up until it is too fast.

[Mr Johnson]

If you want the feel of a real drum, you might as well practice on a tile floor. Even the black side of a Real Feel pad is quite soft compared to a modern marching snare tuned up with Kevlar.

As far as rolls go, having an even bounce might sound good now, but if you really want to get a solid technique, the previous poster is right - it's all about the fingers and stick control for BOTH notes of the double. You single stroke each note until you reach what is know as your "break point" - where you physically can't single stick each note of the double, then it turns into rebound control.

To increase the speed of your break point, a good excercise is to play doubles on each hand with the SECOND note louder than the first. (ie rR lL rR lL rR...Again this needs to be started at a very slow tempo until you have contol at a given speed, then take it up a few clicks. Over time you find that far more of your rolls are feeling like single stroke rolls, you just happen to play two on each hand before alternating.

Ryan J

[Mr Johnson]

One other comment regarding the various sections... Snare lines will always get the oooowwsss and ahhhhhhs in the parking lot, but as someone that has marched in snare, tenor, and bass lines I honestly say that snare is the easiest of the three. Yes, you throw down some hard licks once in a while, but you play every note of the lick and you play on one drum with maybe a few slight movements to the edge, rim, and center of the drum.

In a legit DCI line, the tenors are playing just as many notes as the snares, but they have to be able to do it while moving around the drums. Just watch warm up and tell me who's doing the most work. Basses generally play slighly less complex parts (save for maybe a top bass that doubles many snare parts in some lines) but they have to break them up. The challenge of a bass line is that you will play the same notes as the other two sections, but each player has to make their 1/5th of the park fit seemlessly with four other players. I would certainly agree that knowing all 5 parts is the best way to make that happen. If all you know are the notes highlighted on one line of the music, it's going to sound that way regardless of how much you practice.

Ryan J

[Mr. Hadouken]

In a legit DCI line, the tenors are playing just as many notes as the snares, but they have to be able to do it while moving around the drums. Just watch warm up and tell me who's doing the most work. Basses generally play slighly less complex parts (save for maybe a top bass that doubles many snare parts in some lines) but they have to break them up. The challenge of a bass line is that you will play the same notes as the other two sections, but each player has to make their 1/5th of the park fit seemlessly with four other players. I would certainly agree that knowing all 5 parts is the best way to make that happen. If all you know are the notes highlighted on one line of the music, it's going to sound that way regardless of how much you practice.

Ryan J


:eek: how dare you! :p Check out the basses around 1:10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNP4K-QJJ_I

[Mr. Hadouken]

If you want the feel of a real drum, you might as well practice on a tile floor. Even the black side of a Real Feel pad is quite soft compared to a modern marching snare tuned up with Kevlar.

I've heard rumors that "The Cadets" snare line cleans on tile floor? But I did make my own Tenor practice pad out of Tile floor, it works really well! So Tile floor works, you are definitely pushed to use your fingers.

[hairmetal90]

One other comment regarding the various sections... Snare lines will always get the oooowwsss and ahhhhhhs in the parking lot, but as someone that has marched in snare, tenor, and bass lines I honestly say that snare is the easiest of the three. Yes, you throw down some hard licks once in a while, but you play every note of the lick and you play on one drum with maybe a few slight movements to the edge, rim, and center of the drum.

In a legit DCI line, the tenors are playing just as many notes as the snares, but they have to be able to do it while moving around the drums. Just watch warm up and tell me who's doing the most work. Basses generally play slighly less complex parts (save for maybe a top bass that doubles many snare parts in some lines) but they have to break them up. The challenge of a bass line is that you will play the same notes as the other two sections, but each player has to make their 1/5th of the park fit seemlessly with four other players. I would certainly agree that knowing all 5 parts is the best way to make that happen. If all you know are the notes highlighted on one line of the music, it's going to sound that way regardless of how much you practice.

Ryan J

Well there goes 5 years of playing out the window. I guess I really do have my work cut out for me now. Anyway I have to agree with you on snare being the easiest because the tenors have all of that sweep and scrape madness going on and the bass you have to make everything flow.

[Mr. Hadouken]

Well there goes 5 years of playing out the window. I guess I really do have my work cut out for me now. Anyway I have to agree with you on snare being the easiest because the tenors have all of that sweep and scrape madness going on and the bass you have to make everything flow.

I assume you've been in marching band before? Why didn't your drum instructor notice that?

[hairmetal90]

Yeah I marched for four years in high school. My instructor was the one who taught me how to do doubles. She went to college and majored in percussion as well.

[Mr. Hadouken]

Yeah I marched for four years in high school. My instructor was the one who taught me how to do doubles. She went to college and majored in percussion as well.

That's crazy she didn't nag and nag on using your fingers. That's all i nag my bassline and tenors about snares seem to get it right though.

[hairmetal90]

That's crazy she didn't nag and nag on using your fingers. That's all i nag my bassline and tenors about snares seem to get it right though.

She was all about efficiency and using as little energy as possible to get a good sound so I think that's why she was all about bouncing the sticks. I was reading through the book Stick Control today at my drum lessons(I take drum set lessons) and George Lawrence Stone describes the technique for doing a double-stroke roll as bouncing the sticks as well. It was something about thinking of the sticks as a rubber ball that bounces. The only time she really talked about using my fingers was for like playing sixteenth notes and sextuplets at fast tempos. Another thing I don't understand is how you would use your fingers in your left hand for traditional grip. Although I'm pretty much self taught in traditional grip. My drum teacher wanted us to play matched she just like gave me a crash course about it because she had to play traditional in college.

[Talon]

Hmmm... I double stroked by dropping the stick when I was in middle school, but once I started taking lessons I was taught that's not a good way to practice. From then on I focused on really hammering out that second note and making it as important as the first.

From what you're saying, I suggest you go to the university nearest you and hire a music major to teach you. Corps. experience is a definite plus.

[The Dreaming Tree]

From the way it sounds, it seems a whole lot like your drum teacher isn't a fan of marching percussion. I had an instructor like that in college, and asked for a different teacher the next semester. My second one marched PR in '00-'05, and taught me what I wanted to know, not what she thought I should know.

If I'm correct, definitely find someone that has experience and appreciates marching percussion. Otherwise, you're gonna kick yourself in the *** over and over again for passing up the tutelage.

And, as for the not liking traditional grip, also another bad thing to learn. Traditional grip has many advantages and disadvantages in comparison to matched. Regardless of her personal preference, a true instructor should be helping you perfect your technique on all styles, grips, and instruments. If not, then you won't be getting the education necessary to make you a truly well-rounded PERCUSSIONIST, and not just a DRUMMER, to which there is a huge difference.

[Mr. Hadouken]

She was all about efficiency and using as little energy as possible to get a good sound so I think that's why she was all about bouncing the sticks. I was reading through the book Stick Control today at my drum lessons(I take drum set lessons) and George Lawrence Stone describes the technique for doing a double-stroke roll as bouncing the sticks as well. It was something about thinking of the sticks as a rubber ball that bounces. The only time she really talked about using my fingers was for like playing sixteenth notes and sextuplets at fast tempos. Another thing I don't understand is how you would use your fingers in your left hand for traditional grip. Although I'm pretty much self taught in traditional grip. My drum teacher wanted us to play matched she just like gave me a crash course about it because she had to play traditional in college.

:eek: As little energy as possible? If you just have two snares how is the sound going to project? You have to dig through the head (sometimes) to project the sound to the judges. Your fingers really help bring out the sound.

Traditional is usually fingered with the thumb... if im not mistaken.

[hairmetal90]

The Dreaming Tree marching percussion was actually her favorite. She always said that she didn't teach us traditional grip because it would eventually cause carpal tunnel in your left hand. I don't know if there is any truth to that or not...

Kjack18 I guess that was a bad way to put it because she wanted a full sound it's just that she didn't want us tiring ourselves out half way through the show. Anyway can you guys describe to me in detail how you do doubles because I want to have them solid by the time I audition? Like I said before the way I currently do them they sound even but I'm sure as soon as I go to the camp the instructors will call me out on my technique.

[vicfirthrules10]

i can't really describe how to do doubles, but with the tiring out half way through the show. that just means if you actually do, then you guys just need to get in a lot better shape. because really you should get tired quicker from matched grip than traditional because traditional uses less muscles than matched does. just saying.

[devildrums555]

The Dreaming Tree marching percussion was actually her favorite. She always said that she didn't teach us traditional grip because it would eventually cause carpal tunnel in your left hand. I don't know if there is any truth to that or not...

Kjack18 I guess that was a bad way to put it because she wanted a full sound it's just that she didn't want us tiring ourselves out half way through the show. Anyway can you guys describe to me in detail how you do doubles because I want to have them solid by the time I audition? Like I said before the way I currently do them they sound even but I'm sure as soon as I go to the camp the instructors will call me out on my technique.

You just gotta take your favorite double beat exercise and HIT IT HARD. Start slowish, and make sure it's ALL wrist and fingers moving the stick. And it's EVEN, timing and dynamic wise. Do it at one tempo, and when it's perfect, and I mean perfect (practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect), you bump up 3-5 bpm. Once you get into the 100+ bpm range, practice with an accent on the second note. And you gotta make completely sure that it's fingers until you reach the breaking point like discussed before.

It's tedious, but it works.

[Mr. Hadouken]

The Dreaming Tree marching percussion was actually her favorite. She always said that she didn't teach us traditional grip because it would eventually cause carpal tunnel in your left hand. I don't know if there is any truth to that or not...


That is ridiculous, unless you have terrible technique that is the only way you can get carpal tunnel. Matched grip is the way to go in a high school line... unless you have people that have played traditional together for a few years.

[The Dreaming Tree]

That is ridiculous, unless you have terrible technique that is the only way you can get carpal tunnel.

Agreed. Carpal Tunnel is actually very hard to develop with proper technique. However, it's very easy to develop with sloppy technique.

Matched grip is the way to go in a high school line... unless you have people that have played traditional together for a few years.

Agreed... sort of. Matched Grip is the way to go if you don't have a line competent enough to learn Traditional. Even moreso if you don't have a drum tech competent enough to teach it properly. While Matched may be easier to clean, I've only seen ONE line ever use it properly, and surprisingly, it's NOT SCV '05. Look up Broken Arrow High School. The most amazing Matched Grip line I've ever witnessed first hand.

[Mr. Hadouken]

I am curious. How many hybrid rudiments are you familiar with? I think the most important to know for where you going are probably cheese's and Flam fives.

[hairmetal90]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to say I know cheeses and flam fives. Although I suck at them so I've been practicing diddle grids like crazy to get them down.

[Mr. Hadouken]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to say I know cheeses and flam fives. Although I suck at them so I've been practicing diddle grids like crazy to get them down.

Okay, so I strongly suggest (and i believe you may feel this way now) waiting a year before trying out for a drum corps. But if you can try and go up to their camps and talk with some of the people, they'll tell you all you want to know! I am even sure the people here would be happy to help you, via youtube! I know I would be happy to help.

[hairmetal90]

Okay, so I strongly suggest (and i believe you may feel this way now) waiting a year before trying out for a drum corps. But if you can try and go up to their camps and talk with some of the people, they'll tell you all you want to know! I am even sure the people here would be happy to help you, via youtube! I know I would be happy to help.

Thanks. Yeah I probably should wait a year. It's just I don't know if I can march for the 2011 season because that will be my junior year of college and I plan on studying abroad in Germany for a year and I don't know if finals will interfere with that because I'm not sure when I will have to leave. I still want to audition though because I'll learn so much from the audition camp. If I can I'd like to post a video of me playing so you guys can critique my technique.

[Mr. Hadouken]

Thanks. Yeah I probably should wait a year. It's just I don't know if I can march for the 2011 season because that will be my junior year of college and I plan on studying abroad in Germany for a year and I don't know if finals will interfere with that because I'm not sure when I will have to leave. I still want to audition though because I'll learn so much from the audition camp. If I can I'd like to post a video of me playing so you guys can critique my technique.

You should really post a video of you playing. I think it would really help to let everybody know what you should do. I mean there is still time for you to improve until next season starts.

only issues i'm hearing are
1. fixing your traditional technique
2. Work on cheese and flam fives
3. Using your fingers!

fixing those shouldn't take more than a month at least.

I just ordered "The next level" by Jeff Queen. I am always looking to better myself and well, I saw he has hybrid rudiments in there and he breaks them down really well. Might also want to look into that.

[hairmetal90]

You should really post a video of you playing. I think it would really help to let everybody know what you should do. I mean there is still time for you to improve until next season starts.

only issues i'm hearing are
1. fixing your traditional technique
2. Work on cheese and flam fives
3. Using your fingers!

fixing those shouldn't take more than a month at least.

I just ordered "The next level" by Jeff Queen. I am always looking to better myself and well, I saw he has hybrid rudiments in there and he breaks them down really well. Might also want to look into that.

The only camera I have is the one in my laptop so I'll post a video tomorrow of me playing on my snare. I'm not sure how bad the quality will be. Although my invader is scheduled to come in tomorrow :D so if I record playing that it won't sound as bad. That diddle grid I mentioned that I was practicing says to substitute flam fives, cheeses, rolls, flam drags, fives, for the diddles so I think practicing all of that will help tremendously. I'll also need a sixteenth note diddle grid so if anyone can give me a link to a pdf file that would be stellar.

[Mr. Hadouken]

This help you? I normally take accent grids and toy with everything.
http://www.snarescience.com/exercises/16th-note-grid-single-accent-forward.pdf

[hairmetal90]

Yeah thanks a lot man. I just created an account on snare science to because it seems like an amazing website.

[Mr Johnson]

Okay, so I strongly suggest (and i believe you may feel this way now) waiting a year before trying out for a drum corps.

Nothing personal against the other poster, but don't pass up this year. go audition and give it your best shot. Like I put in another post there is a spot for everyone in drum corps if you are willing to put in the effort to find it and have the attitude to keep it. If you have not marched before, joining ANYWHERE this summer will be a huge plus for you in following seasons.

Ryan J

[hairmetal90]

Nothing personal against the other poster, but don't pass up this year. go audition and give it your best shot. Like I put in another post there is a spot for everyone in drum corps if you are willing to put in the effort to find it and have the attitude to keep it. If you have not marched before, joining ANYWHERE this summer will be a huge plus for you in following seasons.

Ryan J

I'm still going to try out this year just for the evaluable information I'll get from the camp. Also I recorded a video of me playing(sorry about the lighting and the terrible sound quality.). Here's the URL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgJYu8cELc

[The Dreaming Tree]

I'm going to critique this as honest as possible, because that's what they will notice at auditions. No offense meant, just helping.

1. I know you mentioned this already, but the "left-elbow-out" thing is wrong. It not only looks silly, it makes the correct wrist rotation much more difficult to perform.

2. Double-stroke rolls are weak. The first beat is solid, and the second "rebound" is terrible. It sounds like RrLlRrLlRrLl, and that is exactly what makes dirty snare lines: variations in double-stroke strength. Practice SLOWLY, and I mean S - L - O - W - L - Y executing each bounce with equal precision, almost accenting the second note. Creating a very slight rRlLrRlLrRlL effect. That will, in turn, create a stronger, more controlled double-stroke roll.

3. With your right hand finger technique, it's a valuable skill to have, but only if done correctly. Try to keep your elbow down and still execute the same way. It might be slower, but it will build back up in time.

4. Heights are WAY off, but it may be the angle.

5. BB's Lion King lick is hard as hell, and you have the ideas, but CLEAN it up. Take each bar SLOWLY. I'll make a vid and see if I can SHOW you what I'm talking about. It's much better than reading it.

Otherwise, it's a great start. They'll eat you alive if you don't clean up the basic stuff, but that's how they teach you. Hope I helped!

[hairmetal90]

I'm going to critique this as honest as possible, because that's what they will notice at auditions. No offense meant, just helping.

1. I know you mentioned this already, but the "left-elbow-out" thing is wrong. It not only looks silly, it makes the correct wrist rotation much more difficult to perform.

2. Double-stroke rolls are weak. The first beat is solid, and the second "rebound" is terrible. It sounds like RrLlRrLlRrLl, and that is exactly what makes dirty snare lines: variations in double-stroke strength. Practice SLOWLY, and I mean S - L - O - W - L - Y executing each bounce with equal precision, almost accenting the second note. Creating a very slight rRlLrRlLrRlL effect. That will, in turn, create a stronger, more controlled double-stroke roll.

3. With your right hand finger technique, it's a valuable skill to have, but only if done correctly. Try to keep your elbow down and still execute the same way. It might be slower, but it will build back up in time.

4. Heights are WAY off, but it may be the angle.

5. BB's Lion King lick is hard as hell, and you have the ideas, but CLEAN it up. Take each bar SLOWLY. I'll make a vid and see if I can SHOW you what I'm talking about. It's much better than reading it.

Otherwise, it's a great start. They'll eat you alive if you don't clean up the basic stuff, but that's how they teach you. Hope I helped!

Thanks man. Don't worry I took no offense at all. Yeah my heights were off. Just watching that video made that obvious to me. I don't have a mirror to practice in front of so I kind of have to estimate my heights when I'm playing. I've already fixed my left elbow so that's not a problem now. My other question is still my left hand technique when executing a double-stroke roll because I don't understand really how to do it if I'm not bouncing the stick. I haven't figured out how I'm supposed to use my thumb and my index finger get that second stroke. Also how do I get my closed rolls cleaned up. I know I mentioned them in the video and they are pretty terrible as well.

[vicfirthrules10]

yeah. same stuff as what The Dreaming Tree said but another thing is something i couldn't see in the video is that you're supposed to have the sticks sitting at a 90 degree angle to each other. you might have already known that but it hasn't been said anywhere yet so i figured i'd add that in.

[hairmetal90]

yeah. same stuff as what The Dreaming Tree said but another thing is something i couldn't see in the video is that you're supposed to have the sticks sitting at a 90 degree angle to each other. you might have already known that but it hasn't been said anywhere yet so i figured i'd add that in.

Actually I did know that. That was one of the things my percussion instructor got right.

[The Dreaming Tree]

Actually I did know that. That was one of the things my percussion instructor got right.

Well, there you go! You've got something right at least! :p

[Jazzycat1]

Damn you young men have much tougher competition than I had back in the day. All I had to do was show up with a couple of my college drumline buddies. I made the snare line - they made tenors... Not Knocking tenors but they were both Juniors on the college snareline with me (I was a Freshman). Guess they should have practiced more instead of smoking pot every night. - We all made the line and it was a great summer but I had some really good bragging rights when we got back to college the next year. And I got to do the baton Twirler!:D

[Mr. Hadouken]

Maybe it is just me, but your left hand looks a bit horizontal?!?!? Also and this might just be me, but you may want to turn your left hand over more. Turning it like if you were out in the rain you could hold the water in the middle of your hand. I may be confusing you a bit, here is what i am talking about with a visual guide! http://www.freewebs.com/rudimentality/Sheet%20music/techniquesnare.pdf

[hairmetal90]

Maybe it is just me, but your left hand looks a bit horizontal?!?!? Also and this might just be me, but you may want to turn your left hand over more. Turning it like if you were out in the rain you could hold the water in the middle of your hand. I may be confusing you a bit, here is what i am talking about with a visual guide! http://www.freewebs.com/rudimentality/Sheet%20music/techniquesnare.pdf

Yeah it was a little horizontal. I'll fix that as well. Another thing I noticed was my middle finger wasn't wrapped around the stick so there's another quick fix. Once again thanks a lot guys. Keep the critiques coming!:) JazzyCat all I've gotta say is....YEAH GET SOME!! :D:p:cool:

[Mr. Hadouken]

Your buzz roll problem.... its not that easy to fix on a pad. But really you just need to crunch (tighten) them.

[hairmetal90]

Your buzz roll problem.... its not that easy to fix on a pad. But really you just need to crunch (tighten) them.

Alright I'll practice on a snare and maybe make a video of me doing it. That about covers everything except for my left hand technique for double-strokes. Also I'm assuming the technique for triple strokes as the same as far using wrists and fingers?

[The Dreaming Tree]

Alright I'll practice on a snare and maybe make a video of me doing it. That about covers everything except for my left hand technique for double-strokes. Also I'm assuming the technique for triple strokes as the same as far using wrists and fingers?

Unfortunately the answer is sort of. I assume you're talking about the CoL lick? (Just a guess from an earlier post.) That ninelet phrase is a b*tch alone, but the sticking is even better. :D The only advice I can give on 3s is to take it SLOWLY, and don't settle for half-*ss*d.

[hairmetal90]

Unfortunately the answer is sort of. I assume you're talking about the CoL lick? (Just a guess from an earlier post.) That ninelet phrase is a b*tch alone, but the sticking is even better. :D The only advice I can give on 3s is to take it SLOWLY, and don't settle for half-*ss*d.

I was just talking about 3s in general, not just the CoL lick.

[The Dreaming Tree]

I was just talking about 3s in general, not just the CoL lick.

Unfortunately, same advice. Take it slowly. It's much more of a controlled "bounce" than a double stroke, but it's still not a complete "throw down and watch it go". ;)

[hairmetal90]

Alright thanks. If you guys can't think of anything else then I guess about it. It's time to practice really hard :-)