how to mic, what should I do?

[islander1189]

Hello I just have a quick question
I play at my church every service and they are now wanting to mic the drums. I have no experience in this area so I am completely lost. there is a guy who says he knows how to mic drums but I really don't trust his abilities whatsoever. I think i will be able to figure out what would be good mics for the drums, but what specifically should I look for in the mics for: bass, snare, tom, cymbals.
the church currently runs everything off of their large PA system. how should I get the drums to the PA system? DO i need my own little mixer right next to me too?
This would be easier if I had ever had to mic drums but I don't want to resort to an electric kit. PLEASE HELP!!!

['][' [[]] [[]] ][,]

There's dozens of threads on this subject. It'd probably be easier to read through them, rather then wait around for an answer on this thread. Good luck.

[fakiekid]

check out my mic placement thread in my signature

[Danno]

I'll give you what little I know........but everyone else is right, research the heck out of it, there is tons of good info on this site, www.presonus.com (forums)and others I'm sure.

For live drum mic-ing, which is what you're doing, you cannot go wrong with Sure mid-priced mics. I personally own about 12 SM-57's, a Beta 91, a Beta 52, a Beta 98 and tons of Sure Beta vocal mics. Here is my drum mic set up for my (6) piece Masters kit. (The Beta 91 is up for sale or trade if anyone is interested)

Snare I use a Sure Beta 98 on top AND a Sure SM-57 in the bottom. IMO, You MUST have two mics on the snare, it will make a world of difference. They are both mounted to the rim using the Sure AD56 mount. The Beta 98 on top is about 2 inches from the batter head, off to the left side and the SM-57 is on bottom and about three inches from the reso head pointed dead center.

Bass - Sure Beta 52. Place it on a short mic stand through the hole that's in the reso and point it right at the beater (inside the drum) about two or three inches away from the inside of the batter head.

Rack toms I use one Sure SM-57 for each tom. These are all mounted on the rims using the AD56 mounts that come with the mic kit. Mount them about three inches away from the head and point them at the center of the batter head.

Check this out: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-SHU-DMK5752-LIST

That is the mic kit I bought, plus I added several more SM-57's and the Beta 98.

Overheads I don't use overheads for live work. Only during recording. Typically the cymbals will cut through just about anything and do not need to be mic'd. If you want overheads, look for some Rode NT-5 condenser mics. I do not own them (yet) but I've heard good things.

Mixing I pre-mix my drums using a Yamaha MG 12, 12 channel mixer. Mount the mics then spend a few minutes with headphones listening to each drum as you hit it. Each mic should have it's own channel on the mixer. Try not to use too much EQ if you want to record. For live use, just EQ it until it sounds good to you. After all, you are a drummer, you know what it should sound like.

From the 12 channel board, I get one feed coming out using a splitter and feed one channel to my big board, an Allen & Heath Mixwizard 16. Actually it goes into a stage snake, then into the big board, but you get the idea. Keep the small mixer back by you so you can adjust/mix your own drums. The PA guy only needs to control volume, don't give him too much control ;)

If you need anymore help, let me know. I can shoot some pictures for you if you want. This goes for anyone. I am no pro at all, actually I just started learning to mic my own kit. But I have done a boat load of research and this setup seems to be decent. If anyone would like to chime in and correct me, feel free.

Dan

[Rio_mang]

^ True.

If your wallet can't afford the Shure Beta 98, going with a SM57 for batter snare is perfectly fine.

[MMcNeil]

I'll give you what little I know........but everyone else is right, research the heck out of it, there is tons of good info on this site, www.presonus.com (forums)and others I'm sure.

For live drum mic-ing, which is what you're doing, you cannot go wrong with Sure mid-priced mics. I personally own about 12 SM-57's, a Beta 91, a Beta 52, a Beta 98 and tons of Sure Beta vocal mics. Here is my drum mic set up for my (6) piece Masters kit. (The Beta 91 is up for sale or trade if anyone is interested)

Snare I use a Sure Beta 98 on top AND a Sure SM-57 in the bottom. IMO, You MUST have two mics on the snare, it will make a world of difference. They are both mounted to the rim using the Sure AD56 mount. The Beta 98 on top is about 2 inches from the batter head, off to the left side and the SM-57 is on bottom and about three inches from the reso head pointed dead center.

Bass - Sure Beta 52. Place it on a short mic stand through the hole that's in the reso and point it right at the beater (inside the drum) about two or three inches away from the inside of the batter head.

Rack toms I use one Sure SM-57 for each tom. These are all mounted on the rims using the AD56 mounts that come with the mic kit. Mount them about three inches away from the head and point them at the center of the batter head.

Check this out: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-SHU-DMK5752-LIST

That is the mic kit I bought, plus I added several more SM-57's and the Beta 98.

Overheads I don't use overheads for live work. Only during recording. Typically the cymbals will cut through just about anything and do not need to be mic'd. If you want overheads, look for some Rode NT-5 condenser mics. I do not own them (yet) but I've heard good things.

Mixing I pre-mix my drums using a Yamaha MG 12, 12 channel mixer. Mount the mics then spend a few minutes with headphones listening to each drum as you hit it. Each mic should have it's own channel on the mixer. Try not to use too much EQ if you want to record. For live use, just EQ it until it sounds good to you. After all, you are a drummer, you know what it should sound like.

From the 12 channel board, I get one feed coming out using a splitter and feed one channel to my big board, an Allen & Heath Mixwizard 16. Actually it goes into a stage snake, then into the big board, but you get the idea. Keep the small mixer back by you so you can adjust/mix your own drums. The PA guy only needs to control volume, don't give him too much control ;)

If you need anymore help, let me know. I can shoot some pictures for you if you want. This goes for anyone. I am no pro at all, actually I just started learning to mic my own kit. But I have done a boat load of research and this setup seems to be decent. If anyone would like to chime in and correct me, feel free.

Dan

Well, if it doesn't help the OP, it sure helped me! That's a ton of information that will help me mic my own gear up! :) Thanks for that!!

[Gord The Drummer]

Snare I use a Sure Beta 98 on top AND a Sure SM-57 in the bottom. IMO, You MUST have two mics on the snare, it will make a world of difference. They are both mounted to the rim using the Sure AD56 mount. The Beta 98 on top is about 2 inches from the batter head, off to the left side and the SM-57 is on bottom and about three inches from the reso head pointed dead center.

You DO NOT NEED 2 MICS!

Bass - Sure Beta 52. Place it on a short mic stand through the hole that's in the reso and point it right at the beater (inside the drum) about two or three inches away from the inside of the batter head.

This is great, if he is playing heavy metal. The more the mic points at the beater, the more click you get. Use that as a guide.

Rack toms I use one Sure SM-57 for each tom. These are all mounted on the rims using the AD56 mounts that come with the mic kit. Mount them about three inches away from the head and point them at the center of the batter head.

Again, clickity clack. Point them towards the head about 1 or 2 inches away from the rim, and keep them within 1"-2" height wise. Proximity effect is your friend when micing toms.

Remember, there is WAY too much information to get from 1 or 2 sources, a lot of it will be experimenting. There are a few guidelines though:

1. Never mic the resonant head live, it sounds terrible. Only mic the batter.

2. Make sure you don't have to avoid the mics while playing, and you shouldn't need to change the position of anything to accomodate a mic.

3. Use a kick drum mic on a kick drum. Using another mic could possibly damage it, and you really will not get a good sound out of it when compared to a kick drum mic.

4. SM57 is the standard snare mic, and it's cheap. Probably a good bet for your snare.

5. OH mics will usually be condenser mics, and therefore require phantom power. Fastest way to set these up is XY pattern for the best results.

If you have any more specific questions, send me a message and I'll get you an answer.

[drumonthebrain]

Depending on how many open channels your main board has, and how good the sound guy is, you might want to run all the mics into a snake and then into the main board.

If you have a really good sound guy, he can do a better job at mixing the drums, because he's out front, and can hear the whole mix, opposed to you sitting behind the kit, trying to mix and play. If you ask me, it's kinda pointless to have good mics and good positioning, and then mix the drums yourself.

If you don't have a good sound guy, or only one or two open channels on the main board, then get a sub-mixer with as many channels as you need and run your mics into it. If you keep all the pan knobs in the center, you can come mono out of the sub-mixer, but if you pan some stuff to the left and right, you'll want to come out of the sub-mixer in stereo and plug the two cables into a snake or into 2 jacks, or whatever, depending on your churches set up.

Hope this helped

[rubber314chicken]

This is great, if he is playing heavy metal. The more the mic points at the beater, the more click you get. Use that as a guide.
[...]
3. Use a kick drum mic on a kick drum. Using another mic could possibly damage it, and you really will not get a good sound out of it when compared to a kick drum mic.

Also, if the mic is closer to the batter it gets more click.

And you CAN use other mics on bass and get a good sound, just generally not in a close micing situation as you are likely doing.

And I'd also suggest overheads because they offer a great sound of more than just cymbals (they do a ton for the rest of the kit) but the cymbals might be too up front in the mix then as already mentioned.

[Gord The Drummer]

And you CAN use other mics on bass and get a good sound, just generally not in a close micing situation as you are likely doing.

I didn't say you can't, I said I wouldn't. You use a mic with a SPL handling of 95 dB you will likely blow the capsule/diaphragm with a kick drum... then what do you do? As for getting a good sound, live, a condenser will sound like @ss. It will have so much bleed it wouldn't be funny. Studio is a different story, this is based on a live situation guidelines.

[Danno]

First off Michael, you are welcome. I am no sound engineer, not even close. I am a drummer. But this is everything I have learned from tons of reading and research.


Again, clickity clack. Point them towards the head about 1 or 2 inches away from the rim, and keep them within 1"-2" height wise. Proximity effect is your friend when micing toms.


I totally agree most of this is personal preference and I too appreciate all the tips. However, I found the closer the mic is to the head of the drum, the more muddy the sound was. I don't get any click at all with the SM57 three(ish) inches away, and it gets the mics out of the way too.

Dan

[Gord The Drummer]

more muddy the sound was.

This is the "proximity effect" of the microphone that I was talking about. If you understand it, it becomes a useful tool for micing, and can help you get a great tom sound.

[Rio_mang]

[QUOTE=Gord The Drummer]You DO NOT NEED 2 MICS!
[QUOTE]
Though it is a nice thing to have for a snare.

Is there people who only record with two mics per one drum?

[Gord The Drummer]

I'm sure there is. I know Rob will use an AKG C414 in figure 8 pattern coupled with a Shure SM57 on the bottom head.

There is no reason it can't be done, but there is a lot of reason's to not do it live and in the studio. It will depend heavily on how the snare is set up, how much bleed you want to deal with, and what level you intend to have the mic at. In the studio when you have a 72 channel console, not a big deal.... but in a live situation, you really have to worry about inputs.

[fakiekid]

I'm sure there is. I know Rob will use an AKG C414 in figure 8 pattern coupled with a Shure SM57 on the bottom head.


414's on snare, hmm never tried that! figure 8, hmm never tried that either! :)

57's top and bottom, or M201 top or Blue Mouse top, but always a 57 on the bottom, you just cant go wrong.

live, 1 mic on the batter is fine, the time you get, coupled with stage clutter, thats all im gonna put up!

[Gord The Drummer]

414's on snare, hmm never tried that! figure 8, hmm never tried that either!

That's a lie! You use the 414 as much as I tout Karma! lol :D

[rubber314chicken]

I didn't say you can't, I said I wouldn't. You use a mic with a SPL handling of 95 dB you will likely blow the capsule/diaphragm with a kick drum... then what do you do? As for getting a good sound, live, a condenser will sound like @ss. It will have so much bleed it wouldn't be funny. Studio is a different story, this is based on a live situation guidelines.

oh yea, didn't think about the live vs studio thing.

[MortalDrumbat]

try getting CAD premium mics with LP microphone claws the mics are inexpensive and a low budget good deal, this will be perfect to get them over your drums without using stands. peavey makes a great mixer and so does behringer. remember to keep overhead mics on stands and far from your drums to catch the sound without distorting it too much and giving "noise." if your not on a budget though, anything from shure, sennheiser, or audio-technica would be the mics to use for all the drums except bass drums, which id recommend picking up a yamaha subkick for. youll need also cables, a power amplifier, and some other stuff that i cant remember right now.