Zildjian vs Sabian

[David Hollywood]

Ok, so what do you use? What do you like the best? Obviously Zildjian is the traditional choice... but many of Zildjians best cymbal makers went with Bob to Sabian when the company split... so... who really makes the best orchestral cymbals? Thoughts???

[timdrums08]

I love Sabian cymbals for drumset and the like, but for orchestral and marching percussion, zildjian all the way. It may just be a status thing, or something about tradition, but I really couldn't imagine doing a suspended roll, or playing crash cymbals with anything but zildjians. My school recently opened not even 4 years ago, and my band director picked zildjian cymbals all the way. The concert suspended cymbals and crash cymbals sound terrific, very rich, and breathy and tonal. I've played a pair of sabian concert crashes (albeit a low end model, we're not talking about those hhx vienese models) and though they did the job and sounded good, it just didn't feel right in my hands.

[44Ronin]

Ok, so what do you use? What do you like the best? Obviously Zildjian is the traditional choice... but many of Zildjians best cymbal makers went with Bob to Sabian when the company split... so... who really makes the best orchestral cymbals? Thoughts???

Which type? Viennese , French or German?

[David Hollywood]

Any type. I'm just saying, overall, which company do you think makes the best orchestral cymbals? Like, if you were in an orchestra and they said "You can pick out any cymbals you want for the section" which ones would you pick?

[bzizzle]

I appreciate the following in both companies:

Sabian, frequently coming up with new products and innovative. I really feel like they are pushing more towards "newer" music in terms of brightness and sustain. (and flash)

Zildjian, seems focused on staying more with tradition. Dark sounding, rich cymbals and appealing to anyone who likes large orchestral pieces.

Opposite sides of the spectrum it seems.

So, for me...if I want bright sounding cymbals I would go with Sabian (which my ear tends to lean towards), if I wanted to go with a darker sound, I'd go with Zildjian.

Cymbals in and of themselves vary regardless of brand/model...ultimately, I'll go with whichever sounds the best in the given situation.

[Shawn Lafrenz]

There are a lot of good plates out there these days, but I was absolutely blown away by the new Sabian Artisan Traditional Symphonic stuff this year at PASIC - better than old Ks, better than HHX Synergy (and thats hard to beat! ). Unreal musicality.

[David Hollywood]

Yeah, that's part of the reason I started this thread. Zildjian has always been the "big dog" in concert cymbals but now that Sabian has the new Artisan Traditional series, I think the two brands are very close. Any more thoughts? Any specific models that anyone really likes?

[Ehrin]

I've always preferred Sabian HH suspended. For crash I'm pretty torn between the two companies. Sabian seems to have a wider range of products to get you exactly what you need.

[PYRRHO]

There are a lot of good plates out there these days...

Plates??? There are several nicknames for cymbals, including "pies", but "plates" is not one of them, nor is it cool enough to become one of them. The name "plate" carries with it, too many negative connotations.

[DrumYoda]

As with any cymbal choice, the ears should be the deciding factor. That being said, I would urge you to give a very careful listen to the Sabian® products. I have been very happy with all of the cymbals that I have from them whether they be for drumset or concert/symphonic use.

[Ehrin]

Just because you've never heard them called that before doesn't mean it's not common. Believe it or not, there is a music world outside of you playing your crappy little drumset in your room in your momma's house.

Plates??? There are several nicknames for cymbals, including "pies", but "plates" is not one of them, nor is it cool enough to become one of them. The name "plate" carries with it, too many negative connotations.

[DrummerEH]

Plates??? There are several nicknames for cymbals, including "pies", but "plates" is not one of them, nor is it cool enough to become one of them. The name "plate" carries with it, too many negative connotations.
Eventhough this has been said I think it needs to be said again, plates is a very commun nickname from hand cymbals in the orchestral world.

[Marimba6]

Plates??? There are several nicknames for cymbals, including "pies", but "plates" is not one of them, nor is it cool enough to become one of them. The name "plate" carries with it, too many negative connotations.

Uh, please return to the drumset section of the forum. Symphonic hand cymbals are often called plates, stemming from the Italian name (piatti) for them often used in orchestral literature.

Back to the original subject. After hearing and trying Sabian Vault Artisan suspended and crash cymbals at PASIC...I believe that Sabian has set a new standard by which all other cymbals will be measured.

[David Hollywood]

^That's what a lot of people are saying. We're going to test some Zildjian cymbals against those new Sabians here in the store in a few weeks. I'll be sure to post the results...

[DrummerEH]

Man from the sounds of it I need to try these new Sabian Vaults.

[David Hollywood]

^Yes you do. I think everyone should check them out. It's nice to see Sabian step up on the high end concert cymbals. I'm curious to see how Zildjian will respond. Their new K Symphonic cymbals aren't really supposed to be super high end. We'll see what they do next year...

[DrummerEH]

I just heard a clip of the 17" Sabian Medium Light Vaults, maby one of the top 10 pairs of hand cymbals I've ever heard.

[Talon]

I haven't heard too many Sabians in this setting (or knew that I was listening to Sabians at least), but it's hard to beat some of those Zildjian Symphonic suspended cymbals.

[44Ronin]

I think real turkish cymbals should get a look in as well.

[David Hollywood]

I played some of the new K Symphonic cymbals today. A pair of the 17" Traditionals, a pair of the 18" Lights and a pair of the 19" Traditionals. They are very heavy cymbals. The "light" versions speak a little easier but they are all pretty easy to play. They have a nice crash to them but I don't really like the sustain you get after the initial sound ends. It's hard to say, I would need to play them in a hall for a while to be sure. I'm going to test the new Sabian cymbals against some Zildjian Constantinoples in a few weeks.

[David Hollywood]

I guess I would compare the K Symphonic cymbals to the HHX or HH cymbals from Sabian. They are dark, but not as dark as a K Constantinople. They would work well for a High School, College or Orchestra. They would be a bit heavy for anyone younger than High School or anyone smaller than an average High School student. Of course, with their price they would be out of the range of many schools anyway.

[David Hollywood]

Yesterday I tested out:

Zildjian: Z Mac, Stadium, Classic Orchestral, Symphonic Tone, K Symphonic, Constantinople Special Selection and Constantinople Vintage.

and

Sabian: XS20, AA Marching Band, AA Drum Corps, AAX Arena, AA Concert Band, AA Orchestral, AAX New Symphonic, HHX Philharmonic, HHX New Symphonic, Synergy, HH New Symphonic, HH Germanic, HH Vienese, HH French and the new Sabian Vault Artisan Traditional Symphonic.

Whew.

[David Hollywood]

THE RESULTS:
I'm not going to post my thoughts on every single pair I tested but if you have any questions about any of those series I listed just ask. Most of the pairs were 18". The Constantinople Special Selection cymbals were 17" and there were a couple of 20" pairs but the vast majority were 18". So, my favorites were:

HH New Symphonic M/H
HH New Symphonic M/L
K Constantinople Special Selection

The new Zildjian K Symphonic cymbals sounded a lot like the Sabian HHX Philharmonic cymbals. Very raw and pretty dark. Lots of contact "clang" with not a lot of "sizzle" or "splash". They were ok but not really my thing.

The new Sabian Vault Artisan Traditional Symphonic cymbals were nice but not the best of the batch in my opinion. They were similar to the Constantinople cymbals but not quite as dark. They had a bit more shimmer and more of a musical (modern?) sound than their Zildjian equivalents. I can see why people like them so much. They are kind of a modern version of the classic Germanic sound with a more pleasing tone quality. They are also a bit easier to play than the Zildjians. I really liked these but if I had my choice I would use the HH New Symphonic M/H and the Zildjian Constantinople Special Selection cymbals.

[David Hollywood]

On a side note, if anyone is looking to buy some new cymbals it looks like Percussion Source is having a sale:

http://www.percussionsource.com/

[Marimba6]

Cool, thanks for the mini-review. I agree with most of your conclusions. I still feel that the Sabian Vault Artisans have more real-world applications than some of the others listed. But, that's just my personal preference. My next major cymbal purchase will be a pair of the 18" medium-light. I'll probably use them as my go-to cymbal for general use.

[David Hollywood]

Totally. Like I said, I understand why people LOVE the new Sabian Vault Artisan cymbals. They are an updated and slightly more practical version of the high end Zildjian cymbals. It's just that to my ears, there are some cymbals that sound a LITTLE better. They are right up near the top, I just don't put them #1. :)