View Full Version : Visions VS Keller Birch?
The Silent Circus
08-20-2007, 02:41 PM
So, some day soon I want to start buying what I need for my next kit, which will be the one I will have until I am rollin' in the Benjamin's and can afford something like a DW, which is my dream kit.
Anywho, I want birch. I talked to the dude who runs the DSH site, and I have an estimate for Birch shells. Thing is, I would really like to have the VLS or old Masterworks lugs, which brings me to an important question.
Visions or Custom? Is the sound any better or worse between the two? The only plus with customs is that I can choose from a wider range of sizes and finishes, but Visions would be much cheaper. Thoughts?
Definitely Visions. By the time you figure in shells, lugs, hoops, tension rods, spurs, claws, legs, leg brackets (floor toms), and not to mention the type of finish you'll want (wrap or laquer), you'll be up into the masters price range..........or even DW for that matter. Nothing wrong with Keller shells, but with the Visions, you'll get a heat compressed molded shell that is in my opinion, better than what Keller can offer. Sound wise,...........I think the Visions will again win out because of the 6/8 combination. With the quality of drum you get for the price, you really can't go wrong.
PureRockFury
08-20-2007, 06:46 PM
You would NOT be in DW range if you were to build your own kit using keller birch shells and hardware purchased from any reputable parts source.
Custom drums, even if you build them yourself...... can be VERY pricy, especailly if you use "masters" hardware.
$800 just in lugs (5 piece kit including the snare) if you use the Masters CL-250 (bass drum) and CL-100 (tom & snare). That'll just about get you a 5 piece Visions kit.........with hardware!!
Get a Vision set, and save the rest of your money for your DW dream kit.
skywalker2
08-21-2007, 09:31 AM
exactly. even if you are not in masters price range, you will be nowhere near the visions.
the keller shells are all birch, which to some makes them 'better'. but the visions sound great, and the amount of money you would be spending, imo, would totally counteract the fact that they are not 'custom' or 'all birch'.
The Dorian
08-21-2007, 12:47 PM
A custom drumset is better than a Vision.
Vision is a fraction of the cost.
The end.
Chad1200
08-23-2007, 12:36 PM
A custom drumset is better than a Vision.
Vision is a fraction of the cost.
The end.
Custom is always better...then it's YOUR kit.
Definitely Visions. By the time you figure in shells, lugs, hoops, tension rods, spurs, claws, legs, leg brackets (floor toms), and not to mention the type of finish you'll want (wrap or laquer), you'll be up into the masters price range..........or even DW for that matter. Nothing wrong with Keller shells, but with the Visions, you'll get a heat compressed molded shell that is in my opinion, better than what Keller can offer. Sound wise,...........I think the Visions will again win out because of the 6/8 combination. With the quality of drum you get for the price, you really can't go wrong.
I'm terribly sorry ... but where you giving an answer or just repeating a pearl add verbatim?
if you love the visions, thats awesome I'm not trying to take that away from you... but heres how i tear apart your arguement..
Statement: 6/8 shells = win
Answer: No. first is a birch basswood combination shell, the keller is a all birch shell, better quality birch too. As for 6ply's on toms and 8ply's on bass and floors ...with keller shells you could chose 5,6,8 or 10 ply shells for whatever drums you wanted...Keller have been making shells for far too long to not be freaking awesome at it, ad they use a system quite similar to the HC/SMS system that pearl hype so much.
Statement: Building your own kit = $$$$$$$$$$$
Answer: No. You do not reach anywhere near that (masters/DW price). If you go from a good source you will end up with a great kit for much cheaper than buying a new one of similar quality.. why? because you dont pay for labour, you do it yourself... why do you think people build kits? how would custom drum companies make money if the cost price of kits was that much?
Granted using masters lugs is a very very very expensive way to go, I would reccomend strongly against it, but in the end thats the beauty of building your own kit, you can have WHATEVER you want. Except stuff made by DW. They would probably sue you. thats if you even got them to sell you drum parts without owning a DW kit first.
Pearl make great drums but damn dude you get what you pay for. Visions is a mid-range kit. VSS birch shells are pro shells. do the math...
Diofter
08-24-2007, 05:18 AM
Go to ebay and get a starclassic performer or BRX second hand much better choices over the vision and if you are patient much cheaper over the custom drumset
Diofter
08-24-2007, 05:20 AM
Do you live in Germany or central Europe? Try then st drums
www.stdrums.de
If you're really hard up to build your own set, then by all means do so. I did a refinishing project a few years ago, and from that, looked into building my own custom set using Keller shells. However, after looking at the time involved, and not to mention the total cost, I figured getting a name brand set would be the way to go. I'm not knocking Keller, they make top quality shells, I just prefer Pearl. Painting is a hobby of mine so that part of the labor would be nil. But if you decide to go at it yourself, be prepaired. If your not comfortable doing the paint, I would suggest doing a wrap.
Here is a photo of my project.....
Hoboman, I see your point, and I respect that, but you tore nothing up.
Peace. :cool:
MattKeaton
08-24-2007, 09:37 PM
Custom drums, even if you build them yourself...... can be VERY pricy, especailly if you use "masters" hardware.
$800 just in lugs (5 piece kit including the snare) if you use the Masters CL-250 (bass drum) and CL-100 (tom & snare). That'll just about get you a 5 piece Visions kit.........with hardware!!
Get a Vision set, and save the rest of your money for your DW dream kit.
Lol... I'd hate to think of the price starting from scratch buying things at SRP in Austrailia... I think stainless steel tension rods, when I bought them years ago, were $5.50 each.
If you're really hard up to build your own set, then by all means do so. I did a refinishing project a few years ago, and from that, looked into building my own custom set using Keller shells. However, after looking at the time involved, and not to mention the total cost, I figured getting a name brand set would be the way to go. I'm not knocking Keller, they make top quality shells, I just prefer Pearl. Painting is a hobby of mine so that part of the labor would be nil. But if you decide to go at it yourself, be prepaired. If your not comfortable doing the paint, I would suggest doing a wrap.
Here is a photo of my project.....
TWH, thats a nice finish man, props to the marbelize. I think you may have got a little ripped off on hardware prices though, seeing as in your experience building was a high priced venture. For me building is cheap, because i enjoy it so i dont mind the labour and I'm lucky enough to buy hardware direct from the source so those $8.00 tube lugs cost me $3...hoops are about $4 each etc.
I 'm sorry if i came off a bit confrontational in my post, but a lot of members around here just quote stuff from adds or whatever, and have no idea what it means or if its true. So i guess its a pet peave of mine. So sorry if i overreacted.
A visions just rocked up at my local. I have to say, pretty nice kits for the money!
Take care
Alex
motleyh
09-04-2007, 07:20 AM
Nobody's mentioned a major difference: the thickness of the shells.
It's not simply the number of plys that makes the difference between ply shells. A Pearl 6-ply shell is (if I'm remembering correctly) 7.5mm thick. A Keller 6-ply shell is 3.9mm thick -- only about half the thickness. A thinner shell will be a little more resonant (although remember that it's primarily the heads that do the resonating) and a thicker shell will project more volume.
To get even a similar thickness in a Keller shell, you'd have to go to a 10 ply (6.8mm). There are those who say that more plys = more glue = less resonance for the same thickness. Personally, I don't know whether that really makes any significant difference or not, but you would be getting more wood and less glue for the same thickness with the Pearl shell.
To get a thin Birch shell from Pearl, you'll end up in the Masters custom 4-ply series, which is a considerably different price range.
44Ronin
09-04-2007, 10:18 AM
Nobody's mentioned a major difference: the thickness of the shells.
It's not simply the number of plys that makes the difference between ply shells. A Pearl 6-ply shell is (if I'm remembering correctly) 7.5mm thick. A Keller 6-ply shell is 3.9mm thick -- only about half the thickness.
A keller 6ply is approx 4.2mm. Anything less would require re-rings.
motleyh
09-04-2007, 10:25 AM
A keller 6ply is approx 4.2mm. Anything less would require re-rings.From page 1 of the Anderson International Trading 2007 price list (one of the main Keller distributors):
The thicknesses of the various ply configurations on the shells are:
5 ply approx. 0.130" or 3.3 mm thick 6 ply approx. 0.155" or 3.9 mm thick
8 ply approx. 0.210" or 5.3 mm thick 10 ply approx. 0.270" or 6.8 mm thick
15 ply approx. 0.400" or 10.1 mm thick
44Ronin
09-04-2007, 10:32 AM
From page 1 of the Anderson International Trading 2007 price list (one of the main Keller distributors):
The thicknesses of the various ply configurations on the shells are:
5 ply approx. 0.130" or 3.3 mm thick 6 ply approx. 0.155" or 3.9 mm thick
8 ply approx. 0.210" or 5.3 mm thick 10 ply approx. 0.270" or 6.8 mm thick
15 ply approx. 0.400" or 10.1 mm thick
There is probably a .3 mm tolerance on the shells
NYR Fan
09-04-2007, 10:39 AM
Ronin, a little off subject here, but I just checked out pics of your kit. How do you like your Gibraltar Direct Drive BD Pedal and Hat stand? My Cobras have seen better days and I'm thinking about going with Gibraltar.
TWH, thats a nice finish man, props to the marbelize. I think you may have got a little ripped off on hardware prices though, seeing as in your experience building was a high priced venture. For me building is cheap, because i enjoy it so i dont mind the labour and I'm lucky enough to buy hardware direct from the source so those $8.00 tube lugs cost me $3...hoops are about $4 each etc.
I 'm sorry if i came off a bit confrontational in my post, but a lot of members around here just quote stuff from adds or whatever, and have no idea what it means or if its true. So i guess its a pet peave of mine. So sorry if i overreacted.
A visions just rocked up at my local. I have to say, pretty nice kits for the money!
Take care
Alex
No worries.... ;)
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.