Vision or Superstar, Decision 2007!

[NYR Fan]

Now that I'm a proud owner of a beautiful SMX kit I'm seriously considering going ALL Pearl. I own a 6-piece Tama Superstar in Vintage Nickle Sparkle. This has been my gigging kit for three years and it's done me very well. My Starclassic Birch kit became expendable because of this kit. With that being said, I am so happy and impressed with the quality and sound of my Pearl that I am seriously thinking about going all the way. My local GC will gladly take my kit in trade and hook me up with a new VLX. The question is, if it ain't broke, do I need to fix it?

[skywalker2]

well, the superstars do have some advantages over the visions, as do the visions over the superstars, its really just dependant on your wants/needs. they both sound great with slightly different characterstics in sound and the way the drums 'feel' when played.


The bass and floor tom on the visions will be louder and project better; i personally think the visions bass to be the superior of the two, as is with the snare.

The finishes, while more limited, are nicer in general (not so much the way they are applied but the color choices that is.) on the visions and they offer a fusion tom/ w 16 floor tom option, and you can take care of the drilled bass with the bb3 plate and voila, you have a 'virgin' bass.


on the other hand, the superstar gets a mounting system in line with tamas higher end drums, comes with die cast hoops that lend what i feel to be a fuller sound on the toms, and comes in a four piece configuration out of the box. (the visions does not offer this.) they also have more finishes to choose from as well and in certain 'trims' can be cheaper.


You don't NEED to get this kit, but while they are on the same level, they do have different approaches to what a kit in this price range will sound like. its really up to you, go out and play a visions and see how think it stacks up. I think both are great, and it comes down more to if you feel like upgrading the visions drawbacks later on, or if you can live with a kit that took a simpler route with regards to shell construction.


Tough decsion man, let us know how it goes!

[The Dorian]

No, if it's not broken you don't have to fix it.

But it may be a little worn!

There's never anything wrong with a new kit. If it's just that simple to trade you Superstar in for a Vision, then its all up to you. I pretty much second everything Skylwalker said ^

It's your choice.

[NYR Fan]

Thanks for the responses so far, glad to see this post isn't dead after-all. I still haven't pulled the trigger. I'm thinking about posting some pics of my Supe so you guys can check it out. I may wait it out a bit with the Visions. I would like to see some more color options added and maybe Pearl will hear us all *****ing about a hoop upgrade!

[skywalker2]

yeah, its kinda hard to go to visions in that regard: the superstars do have the superior hoop. Heck its one of the reasons i have not pulled the trigger either. (well that and not having money. ;))

Al has mentioned that more colors are going to be used next year for the visons, since they still needed old exr wraps to be taken care of that were left over.

Pearl is generally better at colors than tama is in this price range imo.


Could you please post pics? i would love to see some more supers!


i do understand your dilema; but all in all, i think that if you were to get visions, it would be a step sideways and not up.

If I had superstars already, and was even thinking about upgrading, a masters mcx/starclassic performer or higher would be in the works for me.


Same goes if i had a visions already, and was thinking about upgrading.

But still, post pics!!!!

[NYR Fan]

Skywlk., thanks for your insight. I just sold my Starclassic Perf. EFX kit to purchase my Cranberry fade SMX. My Supe. sounded quite comparable to the Starclassic, not as defined. There definately is something to be said for ply-construction. But the difference was minimal, especially for live performance in the clubs. I really wanted a maple kit and the deal I got on the SMX was great. I've been playing Tama for over 15 years and never gave Pearl a thought but now I actually feel their product may be slightly superior. At least to me the attention to detail may be higher. I see your point and I really like cast hoops, I replaced the 2.3's on my SMX with MasterCast's as well (pics to come.) Maybe I'll just put a frosted EQ3 on my reso bass drum head and 86 the black Tama signature head. That might provide the necesarry distraction?

[AL PERCIVAL]

I've always felt Pearl was a bit too conservative when it comes to color options on midpriced and intermediate kits always keeping it safe and not taking chances. Personally, I like what Tama does with its superstar and starclassic kits especially the sparkle kits. I'm hoping we pull the trigger and open it up a bit. Gene and I have talked about this until we're blue in the face. We'll see what happens. I'm hoping change is in the air.

[NYR Fan]

Al, thank you also for the comments. I think I will hold off unless I can get my hands on an SBX to go along with my SMX,(LOL!) It's just that I'm so pleased with my Pearl set up that I'd like to make the switch completely. But a lateral move doesn't make much sense because the pro's and cons that eack kit offers offset each other. So like I said earlier Al, at least 2.3 hoops and some more color options, hell, I'll spring for the Opti's!

[AL PERCIVAL]

I've said in the past and like the idea of upgrading the Vision kits (as well as the ECX Custom) to 2.3 triple flanged hoops and fitting them with opti-mounts vs ISS. It would slightly raise the price points on these two series but not by much. It would give the consumer more options when making educated drum choices in the midpriced kit ranges.

[SleightOfHand]

Giving the visions the better mounts alone would be enough to put visions over the top for this price level IMO. They couldnt be beat.

[SleightOfHand]

Since this is the topic, I have a PDP FS Birch and it is not meeting my needs as far as tom mounts, drum sizes and add ons. I would rather put money into cymbals than on upgrading the wood quality as I am just fine with the way the PDP FS sounds. I think they sound as good as any top level kit, atleast to my ears.

Maybe the answer will change, which would you go to?
Superstars or Visions? My biggest gripe is with the tom mounts and the SS seems to take the cake here. Both options offer tons of add on drum sizes.

Exactly how much louder will the bassdrum and floor be on the vision than the SS?

[AL PERCIVAL]

Maybe the answer will change, which would you go to?
Superstars or Visions? My biggest gripe is with the tom mounts and the SS seems to take the cake here. Both options offer tons of add on drum sizes.

Exactly how much louder will the bassdrum and floor be on the vision than the SS?

The Tama Superstars are a thinner shelled 6-ply 6mm birch/basswood on the toms, floors and snare. Their kick drums are 7-ply 7mm shell thickness. I've always thought the Tama bass drums sounded great! I also like the fact that their Hyper drive FX kits offer the shallow 6.5x10 and 7x12 toms that have become popular with todays drummers.

The Visions are 6-ply 7.5mm shell thickness on toms, 8"-14". The 14", 16" and 18" floors and kick drums are 8-ply 10mm shell thickness. This will slightly raise the pitch and attach and the kick and floors will have a fundamental lower frequency with more bottom end. In all honestly, both have strong selling points.

[SleightOfHand]

AL when will pearl introduce some new colors?
I dont really like the finishes offered tbh.

You should offer a white shell with black hardware VSX and or the black burst with black hardware. Black hardware is awasome!

[skywalker2]

i dunno if pearl will go the black hardware route again; especially since in this price range, they wont be able to do black hardware any different then they did on the exports, which was nice but not as classy looking as the visions already are. And it would raise the price to do the same quality powder coating that they do for the masters lines.


Personally, like al said, Pearl needs to work on cooler color options before focusing on a color solely to look good with black hardware.

[NYR Fan]

Guys, I think the key for Pearl is to address the mounting upgrade and the hoops. Drummers who are aware of these features will surely spend the extra $ for the upgrades. I know I would. Even if the color options don't change I'd still make the switch if the upgrades were added. Owning products from Pearl and Tama I personally feel the Pearl product is slightly superior.

[skywalker2]

i think the shells on the visons are superior, but the mounting system on the tama as well as the hoops are very nice touches.


I don't think that the prices would stay the same if they changed to optimounts and added 2.3 hoops.

You can easily upgrade them yourself, and the engineering pearl put into the visions, at least to me, counteracts the shortcomings in mounting hardware and rims.

tama took the simpler shell and gave it a great hoop/mounting system, pearl took the more finely tuned shell and opted for cheaper rims/a tried, but old mounting system.

[AL PERCIVAL]

AL when will pearl introduce some new colors?
I dont really like the finishes offered tbh.


NAMM 2008 January 17-20 Anahiem, CA Convention Center. There will be new colors, ideas are flying around (for all series), just no definitive decisions yet.

[SleightOfHand]

Well early jan was the target date to pull the trigger on a new kit, but maybe Ill wait until feb to see the colors. :-) PS this is good for pearl because im leaning towards superstars because my biggest complaint about my current drums is the mounting system. Also Im a huge Lars fan. Id be lying if I said that had nothing to do with it too.

[skywalker2]

thanks for the info al!

i hope our visions color thread hits home!

thats probably when i'll be getting my kit too so its perfect.

even if the rims and mounts are the same i'll be fine. i'd rather them focus on colors in general over hardware.

[NYR Fan]

Thanks for the tip Al. I did a little number crunching today while I was "hard at work." At least for me, to upgrade a set of VLX's with SuperHoops and Opti's would be an extra $250? My local GC would also take my Supe in a trade if I wanted and deduct the hardware and snare from the cost of the VLX. I think I could make out pretty well, plus I would also add a 14x11 suspended right away.

[AL PERCIVAL]

^ Honestly NYR fan - hold onto your superstars and wait to see what improvements are made on the Vision series before you decide to trade.

[NYR Fan]

Thanks for your honesty Al, much appreciated. I think I'll do that. But I, like everybody else will really be looking forward to the future. Hey Al, you don't happen to be a KISS fan? LOL! I'd be dead in the water without Dressed to Kill today. The first real "rock" record I ever heard, obviously all downhill from there. Just my opinion, but one of the greatest rock bands of all time, hands down.

[AL PERCIVAL]

Thanks for your honesty Al, much appreciated. I think I'll do that. But I, like everybody else will really be looking forward to the future. Hey Al, you don't happen to be a KISS fan? LOL! I'd be dead in the water without Dressed to Kill today. The first real "rock" record I ever heard, obviously all downhill from there. Just my opinion, but one of the greatest rock bands of all time, hands down.

Its just that there will be changes for the Vision series (both colors and specs) in the future, so you may want to wait. Don't ask about spec's cuz I ain't tellin'! :D

KISS Fan? of course, look at my sig, I played in a KISS Tribute band from 1999-2004. I've seen every era of KISS live since 1975 (Alive tour).

[SleightOfHand]

AL.... off topic but how does one go about employment at Pearl? :)

[skywalker2]

HUH?!!!! Changes in specs too???!!!

oh man mr. percival you are quite tantalizing indeed!

that could mean SOOOO many things!

since you are not going to give anything away, i'll go off on a speculation rant:

i don't really see any new configurations coming too soon, as that is entirely too optimistic, though if a shallow tom or 4 piece with virgin/non virgin bass does emerge, i will be amazed.(and quite happy to boot.)

But i guess pearl heard peoples complaints about the mounting system/rims...but i still don't think that doing a total opti/2.3 conversion is exactly going to keep the price range where pearl wants it...especially since people will start to focus their un-ending complaints on the inclusion of basswood in the shells, and will start saying things like :'for a bit more you could get a total 100 % birch sessions!" and totally ignore the fact that the visions is offering hardware to boot.

SO.....my guess is that since most of the gripes from iss come from bending the hoop and all these other isolated incidents; Pearl will give us the 2.3 version of iss, so now we have the hoops we wanted and at least a sturdier mounting system. Unless ofcourse pearl introduces a simpler, stripped down version(dunno if its even possible, again just speculation) of the optimounts and keeps the 1.6's. Or maybe they'll include these new optimounts WITH 2.3's and blow everyone out of the water.

Geez...even with the 2.3 compatible iss, the visions are going to be unstopable!


Gosh al what a tease!;)

[SleightOfHand]

Ya if the visions get optimounts then id have a touch choice. Both are good mounting systems!! Same woods.. I guess it comes down to color then. And pearl has much nicer finishes than Tama so I think Peal probably wins.

[AL PERCIVAL]

AL.... off topic but how does one go about employment at Pearl? :)

Its an exclusive family. Make a trip down here and apply in person. :)

[SleightOfHand]

Certainly will do once Im done with college in 5 years!
Id love nothing more than working for a drum company or ice hockey company!

[NYR Fan]

Well it looks like 08' will be the year for my Vision. I can see it already. Whether it's a hoop upgrade or a mount upgrade, the colors are a given I'm sure, I'm making my move! A sparkle/fade lacquer would be nice.

[Genius Switch]

Bewteen this thread and the thread I made I think we have a shot of seeing at least some of these ideas at NAMM and if so my choice for a new kit will be a lot easier.

[skywalker2]

yeah, i'm hoping that pearl takes notice of these threads...mmm i can see it now

#822 skywalker green.

whoa! little too optimistic there. ;)

anywho, pearl took notice as the bb3 plate idea, so why not this?

[Genius Switch]

I was thinking more like #706 Stella Sparkle.

[skywalker2]

stella?

[Genius Switch]

Stella Artois - my favoirte beer.

[skywalker2]

ah! duh i just had to look at the avatar.

where is this brew from...i'd like a swig!


and i'm all for the name too. ;)

[MattKeaton]

I've always felt Pearl was a bit too conservative when it comes to color options on midpriced and intermediate kits always keeping it safe and not taking chances. Personally, I like what Tama does with its superstar and starclassic kits especially the sparkle kits. I'm hoping we pull the trigger and open it up a bit. Gene and I have talked about this until we're blue in the face. We'll see what happens. I'm hoping change is in the air.

Just make sure that they don't re-introduce the sparkle wrap akin to the latter ELX kits :o

:p

How were those finishes received by the general public? To me they were very much a downgrade from other ELX finishes that have been available over the years...
MD

[skywalker2]

what finishes are you talking about?


the only sparkle kit that was ever on an export was the gunmetal sparkle and it looks fantastic, as it does on the visions vsx that its on now.

the only thing remotely 'sparkly' on the elx was the galaxy finishes...solid lacquers with a tiny tiny hint of sparkle but certainly not enought to say 'i have a sparkle kit'.

granted i thought it was still nice looking, but they were released on the exports shortly before their demise...they never had time to really make any fans i guess.

[MattKeaton]

what finishes are you talking about?


the only sparkle kit that was ever on an export was the gunmetal sparkle and it looks fantastic, as it does on the visions vsx that its on now.

the only thing remotely 'sparkly' on the elx was the galaxy finishes...solid lacquers with a tiny tiny hint of sparkle but certainly not enought to say 'i have a sparkle kit'.

granted i thought it was still nice looking, but they were released on the exports shortly before their demise...they never had time to really make any fans i guess.

Yup, galaxy finishes... the worste ELX finish in history, imo.

[skywalker2]

wow really? i thought they were ok...not the best thing ever, but still not terrible.


granted, i've never seen one in person, just online and in pictures...and i've heard many say that seeing these finishes in person was less than pleasing.

[MattKeaton]

wow really? i thought they were ok...not the best thing ever, but still not terrible.


granted, i've never seen one in person, just online and in pictures...and i've heard many say that seeing these finishes in person was less than pleasing.

Hehah... opposite for me! I dont recall seeing them in photos... They are just dull and half-assed in person - that was the impression I got. They arent sparkly, really, and the glittery highlights are kinda dull. Not to mention, it's a wrap, anyway...
Not that wraps are bad... but the ELX laquers are great...

[skywalker2]

they are wraps? then how can they be on an elx?

[MattKeaton]

they are wraps? then how can they be on an elx?

That's what I said...

[AL PERCIVAL]

they are wraps? then how can they be on an elx?

The #267 Galaxy Blue, #268 Galaxy Red, #269 Galaxy Black were ELX lacquers.

[skywalker2]

thats what i thought.

its hard to pull off a decent, vibrant sparkle in the form of a lacquer in this price range.


i knew something sounded weird. I would have said it al, but if you do, it gets more belivers. ;)

[AL PERCIVAL]

thats what i thought.

its hard to pull off a decent, vibrant sparkle in the form of a lacquer in this price range.


i knew something sounded weird. I would have said it al, but if you do, it gets more belivers. ;)

why? I believe everything you say? :)

[MattKeaton]

The #267 Galaxy Blue, #268 Galaxy Red, #269 Galaxy Black were ELX lacquers.

:eek:
Thanks for the clarification... I could have sworn they were wraps... I don't know what made me think that if it wasn't true?!? :o
Anyways, I still hated them :p heheh. What do you think of them?

MD

[skywalker2]

why? I believe everything you say? :)



ah shucks, thanks al! :)


i have other people who see the validity in my statements, you just have a higher voice of authority. thats what i meant.


thanks all the same!


;)

[NYR Fan]

Well fellas, I finally got to see my first Visions up-close and personal. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with Super-Hoops and Opti's, no competition! The overall quality and workmanship is superior to the Superstar. I am scrambling to sell my Supes so I can buy a VSX. I like the Strata White so I'm not really concerned about more color options, I have Super-hoops left over from my Session, and I'll invest the bucks for the Opti's. I WANT MY VISIONS NOW!

[bebop-deluxe]

Well fellas, I finally got to see my first Visions up-close and personal. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with Super-Hoops and Opti's, no competition! The overall quality and workmanship is superior to the Superstar. I am scrambling to sell my Supes so I can buy a VSX. I like the Strata White so I'm not really concerned about more color options, I have Super-hoops left over from my Session, and I'll invest the bucks for the Opti's. I WANT MY VISIONS NOW!

Take a closer look at the stands.