Potential head problem

[dis330]

I went to Guitar Center yesterday to see if quality heads, namely Evans and Aquarian would work properly with the Visions.

Both heads stick out slightly below the bottom of the rim. It is very slight but will cause a problem when mounting the I.S.S. mount. The mount will squeeze the head at that point and make tuning evenly difficult if not impossible. The Exports has a similar defect. The only solution, as I see it, is to change to Opti-Mounts OR Suprthoops.

I'm a bit disappointed as I was ready to buy.

[skywalker2]

how would buying thicker hoops change your dilema?

could the problem be an inconsistency with the head?

how many heads did you try mounting on the drum?

[weldrum]

Something Is funny here. If They had A problem with the exports, I doubt they would let It ride into a new series without addressing the problem.

[skywalker2]

agreed. I still think its the heads. unless guitar center let him try out a bunch of heads to confirm it was the shell and not the head...which i doubt.

now that i think of it, some heads fit more snuggly than others on my old kits...i wonder if its just a normal inconsistency of heads?

[dis330]

Something Is funny here. If They had A problem with the exports, I doubt they would let It ride into a new series without addressing the problem.

Well, they did. Both series have the same problem.

[dis330]

how would buying thicker hoops change your dilema?

could the problem be an inconsistency with the head?

how many heads did you try mounting on the drum?

The Superhoops have a deeper shoulder. It has zero to do with the thickness.

[dis330]

agreed. I still think its the heads. unless guitar center let him try out a bunch of heads to confirm it was the shell and not the head...which i doubt.

now that i think of it, some heads fit more snuggly than others on my old kits...i wonder if its just a normal inconsistency of heads?

It is a problem with the hoop, not the shell.

[The Dorian]

I don't have an opinion until I get my Visions. I'll post on here when I know for sure.

[The Dorian]

The Exports has a similar defect.


This is the part I don't understand. If there was a bad enough defect on the Exports that caused them to


make tuning evenly difficult if not impossible


then how could they be THE best selling drumset in the business?

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

That's what I was wondering. If Export toms are virtually impossible to tune, then why have Pearl sold so many Exports? Why do people speak so favorably about them in reviews?

[dis330]

The quote was tuning EVENLY impossible....not tuning. The rims choke the head at the point where the mount attaches. I'm not the first here to post about this problem.

I guess I should not have bothered posting this as no one wants to beleive it OR they choose to blame it on the heads. I may get a Vision kit, but I'll also upgrade to opti-mounts to avoid this problem. Just thought others might want a heads up...no pun intended. Lesson learned, back into lurking I'll go.

[The Dorian]

"Evenly tuning" is falls into "tuning", does it not? And as I said...if it's really a problem, how are the Exports so popular?

Just because we're asking for more information about it doesn't mean we're "refusing to believe it". As I said, I'll look into once my VLX gets here.

[eyewtkas]

"Evenly tuning" is falls into "tuning", does it not? And as I said...if it's really a problem, how are the Exports so popular?

Just because we're asking for more information about it doesn't mean we're "refusing to believe it". As I said, I'll look into once my VLX gets here.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it can't be flawed in some way.

[dis330]

"Evenly tuning" is falls into "tuning", does it not? And as I said...if it's really a problem, how are the Exports so popular?

Just because we're asking for more information about it doesn't mean we're "refusing to believe it". As I said, I'll look into once my VLX gets here.

Most of the reply post were reffuting my report. "How are Exports so popular" is reffusing to beleive it. Remember, quality and popularity don't always go hand in hand.

The problem is subtle. Many drummers, a lot that have no idea how to tune a drum, would not even notice. For that reason, Pearl may have just chosen to ignore it.

I'm only posting my experiences, I truley hope your's are different.

The bottom line is this. I had a similar problem with my Export kit. So did others. I randomly checked a Vision drum with 2 random heads from 2 different manufacturers. All had the same problem. What other conclusion was I to draw. I'm not posting hearsay, but real world facts.

Take the information and do with it what you want.

[dis330]

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it can't be flawed in some way.

You beat me to the punch! :)

[ConvertedLudwigPLayer]

I bought a new Export in 2005 and the same problem with 1 particular brand of heads and the ISS pinching/touching the collar of the head. I think it might have been with Aquarian Performer 2's or Evans G2's, but I can't remember which it was.

It is definitely a concern for tuning and mounting of the ISS. If the steel hoops were deeper, it would not be an issue with the ISS touching the head collar.

I usually ended up tuning with the ISS mounted on the hoop and tried to adjust my tuning accordingly. I was considering upgrading to Optimounts to solve the problem, but decided to get a new kit that I would be happier with.
The Optimounts would have made a difference, but they do not fit a hanging 14" Export without some modification/bending. It seemed to be more of an issue on the 10 & 12" toms than the 14".

The Export is a nice kit, but the hoop situation with various heads is something that could/should have been addressed, without question. I think it is probably a case of the sqeakiest wheel not getting oil. If there are not enough complaints, the issue will not get enough attention.

[skywalker2]

Most of the reply post were reffuting my report. "How are Exports so popular" is reffusing to beleive it. Remember, quality and popularity don't always go hand in hand.

The problem is subtle. Many drummers, a lot that have no idea how to tune a drum, would not even notice. For that reason, Pearl may have just chosen to ignore it.

I'm only posting my experiences, I truley hope your's are different.

The bottom line is this. I had a similar problem with my Export kit. So did others. I randomly checked a Vision drum with 2 random heads from 2 different manufacturers. All had the same problem. What other conclusion was I to draw. I'm not posting hearsay, but real world facts.

Take the information and do with it what you want.


i think people were just misunderstanding your post (as i did), but them concluding your statements on impossible tuning IS an example of 'taking the information and doing with it what they want'.

So therefore, this is an iss problem right? since you suggested getting optimounts to solve the problem? that would clearly show that it is just an iss mounting problem when combined with 1.6mm hoops...and not to much an issue with 1.6 hoops right?

[weldrum]

I Think Pearl should address this problem. They should supply everyone with the problem different hoops. I consider not being able to tune your drums a manufacturing defect that should be rectified.

[ConvertedLudwigPLayer]

I think it is an ISS issue. Granted, deeper hoops would make it a non-issue, of course.

The ISS is not a great mounting system in IMO. If you tune without them on the hoop, and them place the ISS on the drum and mount it, it will sound different than when it was not on there. Once you put the drum on the kit, you have the weight of the drum putting stress on the mount and hoop, and you will have even more of a difference.

Can the situation be worked around without changing to a different mounting system? Yes, to a degree by using only certain brand heads, tuning the drums while mounted (which can be a pain at times), making slight position changes to the ISS and how it grips, but not to my satisfaction.

[skywalker2]

ah ok. thanks cludwig.

I never realized that 2.3's were deeper than 1.6's....

oh well! I can see how that would affect it now.

[dis330]

I fully expect Pearl to upgrade the Visions with some form of an Opti-Mount. Why? Take a look at how high the brass inserts stick out of the lugs. Also, the lugs are very flat on top which is a perfect surface for the Opti-Mounts. A year or so down the road, they will probably update to SuperHoops also. These upgrades will be covered with small price increases once all the exports are sold off.

Just speculation, or maybe wishful thinking.

I was in a bad mood yesterday. Sorry if I offended anyone on this thread. I was WAY too sensitive.

cliff w.

[skywalker2]

/\ /\

hey its cool cliff, i was unaware of this issue, its a good thing i was planning on getting opti's anyway if i get a visions, and it will probably be soon after i buy them.


I like your wishful thinking, don't know how likely it is to happen, but i would be nice.

[CatBoy75]

Aw, quit being a baby. I have an Export kit and never experienced any problems with tuning, evenly or otherwise.

The quote was tuning EVENLY impossible....not tuning. The rims choke the head at the point where the mount attaches. I'm not the first here to post about this problem.

I guess I should not have bothered posting this as no one wants to beleive it OR they choose to blame it on the heads. I may get a Vision kit, but I'll also upgrade to opti-mounts to avoid this problem. Just thought others might want a heads up...no pun intended. Lesson learned, back into lurking I'll go.

[dis330]

Aw, quit being a baby. I have an Export kit and never experienced any problems with tuning, evenly or otherwise.

What heads are you using?

[AL PERCIVAL]

I fully expect Pearl to upgrade the Visions with some form of an Opti-Mount. Why? Take a look at how high the brass inserts stick out of the lugs. Also, the lugs are very flat on top which is a perfect surface for the Opti-Mounts. A year or so down the road, they will probably update to SuperHoops also. These upgrades will be covered with small price increases once all the exports are sold off.

Just speculation, or maybe wishful thinking.

I was in a bad mood yesterday. Sorry if I offended anyone on this thread. I was WAY too sensitive.

cliff w.

Hi Cliff,

there were some batches of Vision rims that did have this problem. You can request your dealer to replace your Vision rims (free of charge) with the Export model 1.6 steel hoop rim and you should be good to go.

[weldrum]

That's all I needed to hear! Thanks Al!!

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

Hi Cliff,

there were some batches of Vision rims that did have this problem. You can request your dealer to replace your Vision rims (free of charge) with the Export model 1.6 steel hoop rim and you should be good to go.

I don't really understand how that will fix the problem. I thought the Export hoops were identical to the Vision hoops, except for the chrome finishing.

[skywalker2]

i guess it was the first batch of visions hoops that had some sort of deformity.

something that the exports could have been prone to as well.

[AgateDrummer]

I had this same problem with my ELX and ISS, brought it up multiple times, and never came up with any sort of solution. I even posted pics:

http://www.electricrain.com/mo/drums/hoop.jpg

I know it doesn't look like much of an issue, but it's the main reason I switched to Optimounts, and the whole reason that I kept the Protones on my kit until I did. The ISS just pushed the collar of the head up to even with the shoulder of the hoop, and I would a get a wrinkle in the head at that point, which couldn't be tuned out without going *way* higher than I wanted to go. I tried all the brands of heads, same problem, and I couldn't get the sound I wanted out of my drums. I don't know if my hoops are just bad, but I suppose it's kind of a moot point now.

Anyway, just wanted to say that this is an issue with the ISS, at least on some kits that are out there.

[AL PERCIVAL]

I don't really understand how that will fix the problem. I thought the Export hoops were identical to the Vision hoops, except for the chrome finishing.

They are both 1.6 steel. But we did have a batch of Vision hoops that had this problem specifically with Remo and Evans replacement heads.

So if you have a Vision kit and have replaced the stock protone heads and have problems with your ISS mount, we will replace your Vision hoops with the Export 1.6 steel hoops.

[dis330]

They are both 1.6 steel. But we did have a batch of Vision hoops that had this problem specifically with Remo and Evans replacement heads.

So if you have a Vision kit and have replaced the stock protone heads and have problems with your ISS mount, we will replace your Vision hoops with the Export 1.6 steel hoops.

Al,

As posted, some PDF members also had trouble with Export rims....including me. That is why I specificaly checked the Vision rims.

cliff w

[AL PERCIVAL]

Al,

As posted, some PDF members also had trouble with Export rims....including me. That is why I specificaly checked the Vision rims.

cliff w

The EX 1.6 steel hoops should work according to Gene.

[dis330]

The EX 1.6 steel hoops should work according to Gene.

See above post fro AgateDrummer. Perhaps, alert Gene to that specific post. That IS an Export rim.

cliff w

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

The EX 1.6 steel hoops should work according to Gene.

But what's the difference between the Export hoops and the Vision hoops?

[skywalker2]

the quality of the chrome plating.

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

the quality of the chrome plating.

Right. So why would an Export hoop fix the problem when it's identical to the Vision hoop except for the chrome plating? Why not just get a replacement Vision hoop?

[The Dorian]

I don't know...I finally got my Visions and they're fine, but it's the Protone heads. I hope they'll be fine after I get some Emporers.

[dis330]

I don't know...I finally got my Visions and they're fine, but it's the Protone heads. I hope they'll be fine after I get some Emporers.

The Protones sit much higher in the rim. I do hope you have luck with the Emperors. Please keep us posted.

[skywalker2]

Right. So why would an Export hoop fix the problem when it's identical to the Vision hoop except for the chrome plating? Why not just get a replacement Vision hoop?



because the export hoop will be free of the problem that the intial visoins batch had? what if he bought another visions rim that was from the same batch?

[weldrum]

I'm thinking that there was a slight problem with the manufacturing, (One of the flange bends were off slightly, And the result is a shorter rim) the affected batch got out into the first Visions And certain Exports. Pearl stopped using all the rims from said batch and are replacing them with the correctly formed rims that were destined to be on an Export kit As problems arise.

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

because the export hoop will be free of the problem that the intial visoins batch had? what if he bought another visions rim that was from the same batch?

Because people have pointed out that Exports have this same problem, so I don't understand why an Export hoop will remedy the issue. I guess I was assuming that there was a bad batch of Vision hoops and now they are making Vision hoops that don't have the problem, so I didn't understand why they didn't just replace it with a Vision hoop from a different batch.

[weldrum]

Maybe at the time, All they have/had was affected Vision hoops. Meaning there aren't any Vision Hoops that are un-affected.

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

Okay, but don't Export hoops have the same problem?

[AgateDrummer]

It's possible that the newer Export hoops don't have this problem, as my kit is 3+ years old at this point.

[weldrum]

If my theory Is close to being right, And I'm not sure It Is, All of the effected hoops have been quarintined, except the one's that made It out.

[skywalker2]

i guess the only answer is optimounts. (maybe not the most cost effective, but if you change to 2.3's and stick with iss, you need to buy the iss mounts that support 2.3's., which would be a waste of money if you dislike iss in general.) so its either optimounts or 2.3's and optis. (or a few snare stands. :))

[Frederik W]

The Exports has a similar defect. The only solution, as I see it, is to change to Opti-Mounts OR Suprthoops.

I'm a bit disappointed as I was ready to buy.

Well.. NO, they did not have that "defect" as you call your "problem" (which you are the only to have experienced). As a frequent user of Exports at band practice, I have not had a single problem. Not with the hardware, not with the finish and certainly not with tuning them. These babies tuned right up, with brand new Remo Pinstripes, which were put on by me and a mate last thursday.

I really have no clue what you are talking about.

[The Dorian]

Well.. NO, they did not have that "defect" as you call your "problem" (which you are the only to have experienced). As a frequent user of Exports at band practice, I have not had a single problem. Not with the hardware, not with the finish and certainly not with tuning them. These babies tuned right up, with brand new Remo Pinstripes, which were put on by me and a mate last thursday.

I really have no clue what you are talking about.

I played an Export at my church for 5 years using Pinstripes, Emperors, and Ambassadors, and never noticed anything.

What everyone's saying makes sense, but as I've said earlier...

How could the Exports be THE best selling, MOST popular, most USED drumset for over a decade if there's such a defect?

You'd think someone would notice something, right? 00**

[AgateDrummer]

Well.. NO, they did not have that "defect" as you call your "problem" (which you are the only to have experienced). As a frequent user of Exports at band practice, I have not had a single problem. Not with the hardware, not with the finish and certainly not with tuning them. These babies tuned right up, with brand new Remo Pinstripes, which were put on by me and a mate last thursday.

I really have no clue what you are talking about.
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showpost.php?p=1852049570&postcount=29

I played an Export at my church for 5 years using Pinstripes, Emperors, and Ambassadors, and never noticed anything.

What everyone's saying makes sense, but as I've said earlier...

How could the Exports be THE best selling, MOST popular, most USED drumset for over a decade if there's such a defect?

You'd think someone would notice something, right? 00**
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showpost.php?p=1852049570&postcount=29

[The Dorian]

Meh...

Like people said earlier, it might just be a batch of Visions and a batch of Exports that came like that.

Agate, I see that your ELX had that problem, but the EX I played didn't. So I'm guessing it's not all of them. Eh I'll probably just switch to optimounts anyway.

[skywalker2]

Meh...

Like people said earlier, it might just be a batch of Visions and a batch of Exports that came like that.

Agate, I see that your ELX had that problem, but the EX I played didn't. So I'm guessing it's not all of them. Eh I'll probably just switch to optimounts anyway.


yeah, this is the ONLY off putting thing about visions; i now i have to invest in at least 2 optimounts if i go with them, because i can live with 1.6's; i just don't want any tuning issues. I like the look better too.

[twindrum]

The quote was tuning EVENLY impossible....not tuning. The rims choke the head at the point where the mount attaches. I'm not the first here to post about this problem.

I guess I should not have bothered posting this as no one wants to beleive it OR they choose to blame it on the heads. I may get a Vision kit, but I'll also upgrade to opti-mounts to avoid this problem. Just thought others might want a heads up...no pun intended. Lesson learned, back into lurking I'll go.

I belive you. I have the same problem with my export select. It takes a little longer, but you can get even tuning with Evans/Remo heads. It does still slightly choke the drum in that area though. Kinda like puttin' on a slice of moongel. I got away from the problem by using Aquarian heads. Aquarians collar is flat, so it fits under the ISS better. I'd go back and throw on some aquarian heads and see what you think.

[jimmie_thomas]

i have the amber fade vlx kit. after seeing this i checked my kit and didnt see any prob. with the heads contacting the iss mounts. i have the evan ec2 heads on mine. there is not much distantance between the rim of the head and the iss mount. I dont see how it will affect the tuning or anything.

[NYR Fan]

Not trying to sound like I have all the answers, or all the money for that matter, but, 2.3 hoops and Opti's. Erase all doubt. There are different parts sites out there where you can get hoops for reasonable prices. Opti's will run you $30 a pop.

[xenophontis]

u can get them to sound good if you try, tuning on the mount helps and it helps ti tune with the iss attatched.. i got my visions just recently and there IS a problem with the i.s.s and i am DEFINITELY getting superhoop 2's and optimounts, i suspect that they will introduce optis to the vision line,.. i also found that 10" toms are fine because they arent as heavy, 14" toms are also fine,. because they have 8 lugs instead of 6 so its harder to put out of tune,.. but the 12 inch toms,. that are bigger then the 10, but still only have 6 lugs, this drum is most likley to give you problems with the i.s.s as it has with me,.. 2 bad almost everybody that plays drums has a 12" (i said almost,... noobs)

[Son of Shub-Niggurath]

I'm not sure if I've posted this before or not, but I have Pinstripes on my Export toms (1.6 mm hoops and ISS mounts) and I've had no problems whatsoever getting them to sound good or to stay in tune.

[GKNIPP]

I have recently purchased a ruby fade Vision kit and I too switched to Remo Pinstripes for my batter heads and I found this combination to work out fine. I would like to add that I found these Vision series drums to be some of the easiest to tune and I believe they sound great. I guess I am one of the fortunate ones to not have encountered this problem.