Recording at a gig?

[SweetDrums1234]

if my band wants to record themselves at a gig, how would it be done? i am talking with a firepod. like, (wow im such a noob) how can you do use your PA system for live sound and record at the same time?

[Niall McEvoy]

If your mixer has an Aux Stereo Out, then you can take a cable from that going into a laptop or recording device, you will not be able to split up the mic channels though, since it's stereo, only be able to turn the whole mix up and down, so make sure you have your levels right! I've included a pic:
The input saying Record out is your Aux Stereo Out.

[SweetDrums1234]

is that off a soundcraft gigrac mixer? and what exactly is a "recording device"? is there any way you can use a firepod to do this? in this (http://www.presonus.com/images/firepoddiagram-big.jpg) setup, couldnt you substitute those powered studio monitors for a power amp/speaker setup?

[SweetDrums1234]

bump

[TuoKaerf]

Will there be a live sound engineer at the gig?

If so, just take a split from the extra board outputs.

If not, let us know what kind of gear you will be using PA wise.

The easiest way to do it is to take from your PA's extra stereo outputs.

[SweetDrums1234]

no live sound engineer whatsoever. live sound gear would be a Soundcraft GigRac 600 mixer with Yamaha SV112 speakers. recording gear would be a FirePod into a computer.

[TuoKaerf]

Looking at the overview of the Soundcraft, you can take a signal out of the Monitor mix buss and send that to the Firepod.

I'll look at the product manual in a second to see what it says.

[SweetDrums1234]

wow, youre amazing tuokaerf.

[jacobthetongue]

Yeah your monitor buss is about the best bet, however plenty of boards will have an Aux send or "tape line out" etc. that is one of the easiest to use, because it requires very little tweaking to go into a digital interface (Firepod, MOTU, etc.) The only problem is, like Niall said, it is only a stereo signal, so you will be very limited in what you can do as far as EQing and mastering. Try it out though, I have heard some very nice sounding recordings with much less than what you have to work with!!!!

[weps]

Big problem recording live when not using a big PA in a large venue, you ONLY get the board mix and half the sound (or more) may be coming direct from the stage. That ear piercing double Marshall stack that the BE cuts from the mains is also cut from the recording mix.

When the above is the case, it's best to use a separate small mixer and microphones to supply the recording device. You can position the mics for the best overall sound and hear what you really sound like to the audience. I just ordered a cheapo Behringer UB802 ($39.99 at MF, actually closeout but it's not mentioned) with this as an option in mind. 2 stereo channel ins (main mix supplied) and 2 mic inputs, plus has Phantom Power so I can use condensers.

IF you have a mixer with Direct Outs on each mic channel, THEN you can send those UNMIXED to a recording device. Mic EVERYTHING and just leave the faders down on those loud stage sources, direct outs come right after the mic preamps so only the input gains affect them.

weps

[SweetDrums1234]

so for the best sound i would have to get another mixer?

[JGthatsme]

so for the best sound i would have to get another mixer?

That might give you a better recording but not the best recording, and it will cost you considerably more money.

It sounds like you're just learning the ropes, so don't make it more complicated or more expensive than it needs to be. The first thing you need to do is realize your options are very limited with a GigRack 600 mixer. If you think you're going to give someone a run for a Grammy using a recording made off a GigRack 600 mixer, you're sadly mistaken. If, however, you're simply looking to make a recording to hear what you sound like and to have something to share with your family and friends, then what you end up with will be fine.

The easiest way is to record yourself with the GigRack 600 would be to take the stereo RCA jacks out from your board and go directly into a recording device. By recording device, I mean a tape deck, DAT machine, hard disk recorder, computer, etc. If you're computer doesn't have RCA jacks, it certainly has an 1/8" stereo jack. Go to Radio Shack and buy a RCA to stereo 1/8" mini-plug cable for about $4 and record yourself directly to your harddrive. Use the on-board Windows mixer to set the input level or use the mixer provided with your soundcard (assuming you have one). There is absolutely nothing to be gained by going from the RCA jacks or any other jacks on your SoundCraft GigRack 600 mixer into a FirePod and then from the FirePod into your computer.

I would suggest you stop reading right here. However, if you'd like a little more information, read on.

If you want a better quality recording, you could use a second mixer with additional microphones out front and then go directly to your recording device. However, I don't see a need for a second mixer since you already have a FirePod. You could simply use a few mics out front, plug those into your FirePod, and then connect to your computer.

In higher end mixers, each channel may have a direct out. Also, in most cases, you can use the channel insert as a direct out, but this may interrupt the signal going to the main mix. Also, you're SOL if you need the channel insert for compression, effects, etc. You would take the direct signal from your board into your FirePod and then from the FirePod into your computer.

The big problem with making a live recording is that you have to adjust your EQ, effects, volume, etc. for the venue you're playing, and often that does not make for the best recorded program material. For instance, if you're playing a highschool auditorium, you may not need much effects on the vocals. However, when you listen to the recorded material, the vocals will sound very dry without any delay. Also, as WEPS mentioned, you may get lots of stage amp and floor monitors in the mix.

If you want the "best" live sound, you would convert all signals to mic level and then plug each mic cable into two-way splitter. You send one signal to your main board so your sound is mixed for the venue. The other signal would go to your recording device (or into your FirePod and then to your recording device). Everything is recorded dry. You then adjust EQ, effects, balance, volume, etc. That's basically the way a major act would do it. Mackie's Onyx series does this to some degree. You can mess with the EQ, effects, etc. all you want for your live show, but the signal going from the board to the recording device is dry. You adjust EQ, effects, balance, etc., after you've made your recording.

[Butnutz]

is that off a soundcraft gigrac mixer? and what exactly is a "recording device"? is there any way you can use a firepod to do this? in this (http://www.presonus.com/images/firepoddiagram-big.jpg) setup, couldnt you substitute those powered studio monitors for a power amp/speaker setup?

no, because latency with create MASSIVE phase and comb filtering problems. basically, you will be amplifying a delayed version of the band into the room where the band is playing....and it will be noticeable...between 20-100ms.

if you want to take a split, you would need a "Transformer Balanced ISO splitter snake", which im sure isnt in your budget, as they tend to be pricey[$50 and up per transformer, minimum 8 channels, plus labor, 2 multicore cables with fanouts, connectors, a stage box, etc...figure $1000 minimum]

your best bet is to experiment with recording the Aux or record outputs....if you were using a more traditional mixer with auxes or subgroups, you could use those as individual outputs...even something like a Mackie 1604 would give you 8 direct outs, plus 4 aux outs[or maybe 6 aux outs.]

to the poster who claimed that there is no benefit to recording through a firepod as opposed to going "directly into your soundcard": you are gravely mistaken and obviously know very little about digital conversion. Even the convertors in a semi-pro device like the firepod will be immeasureably better than the crappy conversion built into a computer.

[JGthatsme]

to the poster who claimed that there is no benefit to recording through a firepod as opposed to going "directly into your soundcard": you are gravely mistaken and obviously know very little about digital conversion. Even the convertors in a semi-pro device like the firepod will be immeasureably better than the crappy conversion built into a computer.


But you're not saying it can't or shouldn't be done...

For what the poster is starting with (a mono signal from the GigRack 600 mixer sent via stereo RCA jacks) and ultimately wishes to end up with (I'm assuming a very simple recording), it'll be fine. I make simple recordings of my band from time to time and normally go from the RCAs on my board straight into my DAT deck, but I've also gone directly into a laptop using the RCAs to an 1/8" miniplug with no problems at all. You're not going to end up with something to package and sell or put on radio, but it's more than adequate for your own use. I just don't think going from the RCA outs on the board into the FirePod and then into the computer is going to make a discernable difference for a simple recording such as this. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I think he should try it before going out and blowing more $$$ on additional gear he may not need.

[dubsnack]

You know what else works pretty good and is way easier than trying to tap into a PA, is those sony minidisc recorders with the stereo mic. That's what a lot of bootleggers use.

[inspectah]

This is what i was going to suggest... (just use a xlr Y splitter for those of you who can't be bothered to read)
If you want the "best" live sound, you would convert all signals to mic level and then plug each mic cable into two-way splitter. You send one signal to your main board so your sound is mixed for the venue. The other signal would go to your recording device (or into your FirePod and then to your recording device). Everything is recorded dry. You then adjust EQ, effects, balance, volume, etc. That's basically the way a major act would do it. Mackie's Onyx series does this to some degree. You can mess with the EQ, effects, etc. all you want for your live show, but the signal going from the board to the recording device is dry. You adjust EQ, effects, balance, etc., after you've made your recording.

[SweetDrums1234]

That might give you a better recording but not the best recording, and it will cost you considerably more money.

It sounds like you're just learning the ropes, so don't make it more complicated or more expensive than it needs to be. The first thing you need to do is realize your options are very limited with a GigRack 600 mixer. If you think you're going to give someone a run for a Grammy using a recording made off a GigRack 600 mixer, you're sadly mistaken. If, however, you're simply looking to make a recording to hear what you sound like and to have something to share with your family and friends, then what you end up with will be fine.

The easiest way is to record yourself with the GigRack 600 would be to take the stereo RCA jacks out from your board and go directly into a recording device. By recording device, I mean a tape deck, DAT machine, hard disk recorder, computer, etc. If you're computer doesn't have RCA jacks, it certainly has an 1/8" stereo jack. Go to Radio Shack and buy a RCA to stereo 1/8" mini-plug cable for about $4 and record yourself directly to your harddrive. Use the on-board Windows mixer to set the input level or use the mixer provided with your soundcard (assuming you have one). There is absolutely nothing to be gained by going from the RCA jacks or any other jacks on your SoundCraft GigRack 600 mixer into a FirePod and then from the FirePod into your computer.

I would suggest you stop reading right here. However, if you'd like a little more information, read on.

If you want a better quality recording, you could use a second mixer with additional microphones out front and then go directly to your recording device. However, I don't see a need for a second mixer since you already have a FirePod. You could simply use a few mics out front, plug those into your FirePod, and then connect to your computer.

In higher end mixers, each channel may have a direct out. Also, in most cases, you can use the channel insert as a direct out, but this may interrupt the signal going to the main mix. Also, you're SOL if you need the channel insert for compression, effects, etc. You would take the direct signal from your board into your FirePod and then from the FirePod into your computer.

The big problem with making a live recording is that you have to adjust your EQ, effects, volume, etc. for the venue you're playing, and often that does not make for the best recorded program material. For instance, if you're playing a highschool auditorium, you may not need much effects on the vocals. However, when you listen to the recorded material, the vocals will sound very dry without any delay. Also, as WEPS mentioned, you may get lots of stage amp and floor monitors in the mix.

If you want the "best" live sound, you would convert all signals to mic level and then plug each mic cable into two-way splitter. You send one signal to your main board so your sound is mixed for the venue. The other signal would go to your recording device (or into your FirePod and then to your recording device). Everything is recorded dry. You then adjust EQ, effects, balance, volume, etc. That's basically the way a major act would do it. Mackie's Onyx series does this to some degree. You can mess with the EQ, effects, etc. all you want for your live show, but the signal going from the board to the recording device is dry. You adjust EQ, effects, balance, etc., after you've made your recording.

wow. yes, i am learning the ropes. and the truth is, i do not have any recording equipment, or any live sound equipment at all. i am saving up for the Gigrac option, currently i am using my friend's no-name speakers with an old behringer powered mixer. what would be the best option to use for live sound and recording? what i mean is, what live sound option will give me the best of both worlds, recording and live sound? i know that it is a little rude of me to not have told you that i dont have any of this stuff, but eventually i will go the FirePod route with the recording part.

[Tju85]

..I'm sorry, I just have to ask.

Why would you make all these people post coutness posts about products you don't even have?


..Anyways....it would work the same with your Behringer mixer. Rec. Out to your PC.

[SweetDrums1234]

^^^because i am in the buying stage. i want to get this stuff, and i want to make sure it is a good setup before i buy it. honestly, what is the point of buying something that doesnt work for the purpose i bought it for?