The "I want to start recording but I know nothing!" Thread

[surftex363]

Alright you want to start making some demos for your band and record yourself. I understand. I want yall to understand that you cant go very lighty with recording. Its pretty much an all out purchase, or your gonna sound like crap! Lets start with the basics of what your gonna be needing.

Something to plug your source into. Now a days for the most part, home recording "rigs" are made Firewire or USB to create a more easier way to jump into recording! So, you are gonna be recording drums I assume, so im going to showcase some "bigger" interfaces and mixers.

First off is the FIREPOD.
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/0/7/5/241075.jpg
Made by presonus whos name is very strong in studio equipment. This is a very nice product. Have 8 XLR inputs which will leave plenty for your drums and guitars. This Interface uses a firewire connection, which most computer and laptops have built-in nowadays. runs about 500 bucks USD nowadays



Next We have The Behringer Xenyx Series
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/1/4/6/408146.jpg
Good and cheap. Behringer has always made great mixers. And the great thing about these ones is they are USB connected. so you can plug it straight into your computer and record separate tracks. They come in many sizes and are dirt cheap. 220 for a 6 xlr input one.


Now i know alot of you already have a mixer siting around in your garage from some band you used to play with years ago. and you question is, how do i connect it to my computer to record? Well alot of people wing it and go from your AUX sends straight into your computers sound card. and thats not to great cause you wont have any seperate tracks to mix when your done tracking! What you need is an interface.

The firepod which i showed you before you work great, but i find this baby nice and pretty

M-AUDIO firewire interface.
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/9/9/288999.jpg
This baby has 2 XLR inputs on the front and 16 inputs i think on the back. which your mixers "outs" would be pluged into, which would give you seperated tracks when you recorded to your computer. Its kinda complecated to get indepth right now with it but. i think you get the picture.
499.99


There are also stand alone multi-track recorders, which is a hole different world.

Mics!

You cant cut corners with mics! i did when i started and it set me back with sound quality. Even if you cant get a full set of mics at once, wait! Mics are a crutial part of geting that good sound.

AUDIX FUSION
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/8/6/1/244861.jpg
I know alot of people that own em and use em! i have heard great results and the price is unbeatable. Great seat for any home recording musician. 220$

Shure PG mic set
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/0/6/7/369067.jpg
Shure makes amazing mics and always will. they sound amazing, but have a little more of a price to pay. 399$

WHAT TO STAY AWAY FROM!
NADY, CAD and so one. any budget mic set!
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/6/9/4/245694.jpg
dont even buy em if they are on sale for 25 bucks, they would still be a bad deal. crapy mics = crappy sound. PERIOD!

Im sure all you guys can figure out mic stands and cords. :p


I hope it helped all of you new recorders. If i passed on any bad info, just let me know and ill change it.

and if a mod would please sticky this thread so we dont have a billion little threads about this topic.

Thanks
-Joe

[NStarr]

Nice! Very helpful and informative:).

[surftex363]

thank you. ill be adding more later

[Somen]

nice, but it would be nice to have an approx. price on all of them , i know the mixer is "dirt cheap" but what IS dirt cheap? 20$, 200$?

[Mr. Oliver]

good post man very informative thanks.

[surftex363]

prices are up

[jjjoeeee]

god id love to know how to record my own band, and this helped a little bit, but since i dont know anything, and i mean anything about recording it didnt help me that much. ( i know pathetic)

the part that im confused about is where to plug in mics (ect. ect) then how do i get it from the interface onto the computer? usb?

[PYRRHO]

Read the FAQ.
www.homerecording.com

[SMX_Dizzy]

you could go over Firewire mixers too, if you felt like it...the Phonic and Alesis ones (by the time you spend the money to buy a Mackie Onyx, you could've bought a Firepod or two...or three).

[Tju85]

Question: I was told that the Xenyx mixers would only send two channels down to your computer..IE Stereo Left, and Stereo Right.

I was told it wouldn't operate like a firepod- sending 8 channels on different tracks.

[surftex363]

Question: I was told that the Xenyx mixers would only send two channels down to your computer..IE Stereo Left, and Stereo Right.

I was told it wouldn't operate like a firepod- sending 8 channels on different tracks.


i have really heard very little about them, if that is true. that is ***

[Tju85]

Yeah, I beileve it is true. The mixer isn't firewire..its USB.

Usually USB devices don't import 8 tracks onto seperate tracks in the recording program.

Take the Alesis USB Mixer for example.

[surftex363]

Yeah, I beileve it is true. The mixer isn't firewire..its USB.

Usually USB devices don't import 8 tracks onto seperate tracks in the recording program.

Take the Alesis USB Mixer for example.

well i knew it was USB but i didnt know that it only imported the 2 outs

[SMX_Dizzy]

USB mixers will only send a stereo track (2 tracks: left and right) to the multitrack program. They're really cheap b/c of this. However, even with free multitrack programs like Reaper, you can zoom in on a wave and make a particular sound (bass, snare, etc...whatever sound you want really) louder, and it's not too hard.

[SweetDrums1234]

the firepod only has 8 XLR inputs? isnt that not enough? i mean, if you want to record your full band at say, a live gig, wouldnt you need more than 8 channels?

[ignignokt]

Then you'd get another one :)

[SMX_Dizzy]

the firepod only has 8 XLR inputs? isnt that not enough? i mean, if you want to record your full band at say, a live gig, wouldnt you need more than 8 channels?
If you were going to be recording a band at a live gig, and needed more than 8 XLR inputs, you would probably want to get something like a Phonic Helix Board 24 Firewire (http://210.243.85.5/partner/modules/product_explor/products_detail.php?product_id=141) with 16 XLR inputs...or you could just get another Firepod.

[Watwdrums]

Are you completely sure about the M-Audio interface and the way it works. I.e. Plug a XLR lead from my mixer's Main Out to the input on that 2 XLR interface and it'll still be able to transfer the sound and put them into seperate tracks on your recording software?

Thanks. If this is true I could save so much money!

[SweetDrums1234]

Then you'd get another one :)

then how would you hook up both firepods? and also, is it necessary to get the Behringer board? couldn't you get something else, like Yamaha or Soundcraft?

[SweetDrums1234]

bump

[TuoKaerf]

To use two Firepods together, you connect each of them together with a firewire cable, then run another firewire cable to your computer.

If you are getting into recording and only need 8 or so inputs, I would highly suggest NOT going with a mixer.

Unless you want to spend ALOT of money on a board, forget going with one. They will not enhance your sound. You'd be a lot better off using the software's mixer. The plugin effects will be 100x better than on a small mixer.

Spend the money on better mics, good plugins, and better preamps.

[SMX_Dizzy]

Are you completely sure about the M-Audio interface and the way it works. I.e. Plug a XLR lead from my mixer's Main Out to the input on that 2 XLR interface and it'll still be able to transfer the sound and put them into seperate tracks on your recording software?

Thanks. If this is true I could save so much money!
On the back of that M-Audio 1814 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/Firewire1814--img_back.jpg) there are 8 line ins. If your mixer has direct outs, you can plug the direct outs (up to 8 on the mixer I believe) into the line ins on the back of the 1814. So you'd have the 2 XLR ins on the front of the interface, and then how ever many per direct out you have.

If I'm wrong, correct me. But this is how I'm pretty sure it works.

[Watwdrums]

On the back of that M-Audio 1814 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/Firewire1814--img_back.jpg) there are 8 line ins. If your mixer has direct outs, you can plug the direct outs (up to 8 on the mixer I believe) into the line ins on the back of the 1814. So you'd have the 2 XLR ins on the front of the interface, and then how ever many per direct out you have.

If I'm wrong, correct me. But this is how I'm pretty sure it works.Right ok I have the Behringer UB2442FX-Pro and I believe that it does infact have direct outs. So if I plug the outs from my mixer to the unbalanced inputs on the back and then connect it to my computer I will be able to record all the mics in individual tracks on my software.

And I would be able to plug another two mic's into the front aswell or can I do what I did with the back inputs and put the direct outs to those inputs?

So this is obviously much better than the M-Audio Delta 1010 which is a PCI interface?

[SMX_Dizzy]

Better if you consider having two extra XLR pres on it. They both do pretty much the same thing I believe (in terms of hooking direct outs on a mixer to the interface), and both have the same effect.

About your mixer, though. Since it only has 8 direct outs, I think you can only use 8 of the 10 XLR or 1/4" inputs. I'm not sure if you could use all 10 inputs if you used the 8 sub outputs...I really don't know. That's the only problem I can think of...but maybe it isn't a problem since the 1814 has 2 XLR preamps anyway?

[Watwdrums]

Better if you consider having two extra XLR pres on it. They both do pretty much the same thing I believe (in terms of hooking direct outs on a mixer to the interface), and both have the same effect.

About your mixer, though. Since it only has 8 direct outs, I think you can only use 8 of the 10 XLR or 1/4" inputs. I'm not sure if you could use all 10 inputs if you used the 8 sub outputs...I really don't know. That's the only problem I can think of...but maybe it isn't a problem since the 1814 has 2 XLR preamps anyway?Awesome, not "Dissing" your advice or anything I mean it has opened my eyes a bit. But I remember last time I had a bit of a query Chief Pronto was able to answer the question and sort of dumb it down enough lol.

However still appreciate the help you've given me :D

[SMX_Dizzy]

haha sorry, if it needs to be "dumbed down" i could try later.

[SMX_Dizzy]

Here's something I just did. You can basically get the idea out of it. If I'm correct about the subgroup part too, then the same thing (colored cable match-up) goes for that too.

[Watwdrums]

Ahh so I can only really use four? or could you not be bothered to do another 4? lol :D

[SMX_Dizzy]

I didn't bother to do another 4 b/c my wireless mouse sucks, and it spazzes out all the time...which explains the pink line :p

[Watwdrums]

I didn't bother to do another 4 b/c my wireless mouse sucks, and it spazzes out all the time...which explains the pink line :pLol oh yeah. Right ok, thanks dude. helps alot!

[SweetDrums1234]

hey Surftex, do you think you could maybe add more to this? like how to hook everything up, and cable choice and maybe even a little bit on how to do some basic recording and stuff like that? thats what i really need to know.

[surftex363]

yeah i was planning on it, like what SMX dizzy just showd, i was planning on putting up. I think i tought him that anyways :D. but yeah im gonna add to it.

[SMX_Dizzy]

yeah i was planning on it, like what SMX dizzy just showd, i was planning on putting up. I think i tought him that anyways :D. but yeah im gonna add to it.
I think I actually learned it on the HRF.

[Lammy]

Sorry for the big bump but how many mics do i need for live playing and recording?
Is a kick mic and 2 overheads enough? Maybe a snare mic?
Then i can always buy tom mics afterwards when i have more money.
Another question: Is it possible to bring your own (personal) mixer live so you can adjust your drumsound yourself or don't P.A. guys allow that?
And can you recommend me some good mics and a mixer at www.thomann.de ?

[ihaveagretsch]

Live playing and recording are two COMPLETELY different scenarios.

For instance, recording with minimal mics, I imagine most people (myself included) would recommend two overheads and a kick mic. Of course this depends on the sound you're trying to get and what style of music etc. The two overheads can be placed to capture the whole kit and the kick drum mic allows you to have some control over the kick. But, if you have the money, a great setup would be a kick mic a snare mic, tom mics and 2 overheads.

However, for live use, personally I would never use overheads in mid or small sized venue (such as a school hall or bar etc.). Cymbals carry so well already and overheads would make for even more trouble controlling feedback. So for live, I would recommend a kick mic deffinately, tom mics are great, snare is a maybe depending on how hard you hit your snare. I did live sound for a while (only stopped because a part time job I got meant I couldn't make soundcheck each friday), and I found that I only used the snare mic some of the time, and even then I EQ'd it rolling off a lot of the top end and only leaving the low-mids mostly, so it would would then blend with the "crack" coming from the live snare.

In response to mixing your drums on stage and then sending that to the soundguy, that's actually what I did when I first started playing live. I knew nothing. Now that I've learned a little, I would say it's really not a good idea. Leave it to the engineer. He knows what he's doing. You can only mix for yourself. You have no idea how it sounds off stage, because you are on stage. Even if you can make a better mix than the soundguy, at least he can hear the mix he's making.

And lastly, some mics and a mixer. I own a Mackie CFX12 and I still use it everyday when I'm practicing and it'd quite easily handle mixing FOH for a small show. Again, it depends what you want to use it for. Live, a Mackie or Behringer or something along those lines would be fine. For recording, unless you're able to buy a mixer that will make your mixes sound better, you're best off mixing ITB (In The Box).
For mics, how much do you want to spend? You could get a cheap drum mic package that would work fine. If you're wanting to do the recording thing, I would suggest quality over quantity. If you can only afford 2 good mics, go with that. You can always add on as you go but it sucks having to replace the crap ones down the track.

[VanHanegem1995]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Fostex MR8HD 8-Track Digital Recorder? It seems like a good deal for the $$$ but I just want to get some firsthand experience.

[RemoNico]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the "user friendly" stand alone recorders:)

I've been using them for many years now, and find them very easy to use, and the sound quality is very good.

What do you need to record your drums into a standalone recorder?

1) The standalone recorder:
**8 track simultaneous recording capability: Tascam 2488MKII ($799), Korg D888 ($699.99), Yamaha AW 1600 ($999.99), Boss BR 1600 CD ($1,299.99).

2) Mics (very well described by Surftex:)). I couldn't agree more: cheap mics = cheap sound.


Van, about the Fostex MR8HD, here's what I've read: they can only record 4 simultaneous tracks. It's not really an 8 track mixer, it's only 6 tracks. You can record on tracks 1-4, the other two faders control stereo tracks 5/6 and 7/8. So, let's say you record your drums on tracks 1-4, then, to keep on recording, you would have to bounce your drums to track 5/6 or 7/8, so you can keep on adding tracks.

I've used only Tascam: 414 4 track cassette portastudio, DP-01 8 track digital portastudio and now I have a 2488 MKII. I strongly recommend them. Easy to use and they are great sounding devices.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers!

[Decap1tator]

Okay everyone. I'm currently setting up a more serious studio at home and i've read up alot and i think i've gotten a pretty good idea of what i need. This is what i've decided upon, what i would like is your general oppinion and reactions, maybe tips if something isn't quite up to par and so on. If you need to know and specifics about the kit i'm recording, take a look in my signature. It's quite a big kit, so you might wanna take a look, if that changes circumstances at all. And i'm MAINLY (not only) going to be recording metal and rock.


So, everything will be operting through my Macbook-laptop computer and Presonus Firepod.

For the bassdrum, i've gone with triggering, partly cuz i'm playing Axis pedals, so it's very easy with the e-kits, and i think that's probably the best way to get a good sounding consistant sound. The triggers are plugged into an Alesis DM5 module.

For toms and snare, i've gotten a great deal on a pack of SM57-mics. Because i have 6 toms to mic, and only have 8 channels total on the firepod, i've decided to mic two toms per microphone, will that be okay? I was debating using two sm57s for the snare, one top one bottom, is that necessary?

For cymbals, i'm not completely set yet. I've kinda been leaning at this set http://www.thomann.de/se/oktava_mk_012_matched_pair.htm lately, what do you guys think about that? I will need these mics to pic upp all cymbals on the kit(grand total about 15 mics, consisting of three different hi-hats, so "close-micing" for example the hi-hat as well is out of the question as i use all of them equally), will those two be enough?



The conclusion is this for the 8 channels on the firepod:
1: the triggers:
3: the toms
1: snare
2: cymbals

That's only 7 channels though, and i might as well use them all. What do you think i should spend the last channel on? Another mic for the snare? A "room mic"? Another cymbal mic?

One last thing, which "affordable" cables would you recommend for all of this?
Thanks!

[unclesam]

True RemoNico! They are a great place to start recording! I have an 2488 as well (I almost never use it anymore).

I've used it a lot though! It's great quality for the price!

uncle Sam

[JrummerJ]

Okay everyone. I'm currently setting up a more serious studio at home and i've read up alot and i think i've gotten a pretty good idea of what i need. This is what i've decided upon, what i would like is your general oppinion and reactions, maybe tips if something isn't quite up to par and so on. If you need to know and specifics about the kit i'm recording, take a look in my signature. It's quite a big kit, so you might wanna take a look, if that changes circumstances at all. And i'm MAINLY (not only) going to be recording metal and rock.


So, everything will be operting through my Macbook-laptop computer and Presonus Firepod.

For the bassdrum, i've gone with triggering, partly cuz i'm playing Axis pedals, so it's very easy with the e-kits, and i think that's probably the best way to get a good sounding consistant sound. The triggers are plugged into an Alesis DM5 module.

For toms and snare, i've gotten a great deal on a pack of SM57-mics. Because i have 6 toms to mic, and only have 8 channels total on the firepod, i've decided to mic two toms per microphone, will that be okay? I was debating using two sm57s for the snare, one top one bottom, is that necessary?

For cymbals, i'm not completely set yet. I've kinda been leaning at this set http://www.thomann.de/se/oktava_mk_012_matched_pair.htm lately, what do you guys think about that? I will need these mics to pic upp all cymbals on the kit(grand total about 15 mics, consisting of three different hi-hats, so "close-micing" for example the hi-hat as well is out of the question as i use all of them equally), will those two be enough?



The conclusion is this for the 8 channels on the firepod:
1: the triggers:
3: the toms
1: snare
2: cymbals

That's only 7 channels though, and i might as well use them all. What do you think i should spend the last channel on? Another mic for the snare? A "room mic"? Another cymbal mic?

One last thing, which "affordable" cables would you recommend for all of this?
Thanks!

Instead of using 1 mic for multiple toms, or to give you another set of room mics, why not record the midi out of the Alesis and save an input. You can play the midi back through the module or use a software sampler to get the audio after the rest are finished. Just an idea, you would also be able to nudge the midi notes if just one or two are a bit off.

J

[Decap1tator]

Yeah that's true. How do you hook that up? The triggers into the module are the same i assume, then just hook midi out, into midi in on the firepod? Does that show up as a seperate channel in cubase when recording or how does it work?
Thaks for the tip, keep them coming!

[JrummerJ]

Yeah that's true. How do you hook that up? The triggers into the module are the same i assume, then just hook midi out, into midi in on the firepod? Does that show up as a seperate channel in cubase when recording or how does it work?
Thaks for the tip, keep them coming!

I've never used Cubase, but I would assume that you would create audio tracks for the analog inputs, and then make a midi track for the kick. There should be a way to select the firepod as the midi device on the midi track. Maybe someone with Cubase experience can chime in.

J

[RemoNico]

QUOTE=unclesam:
True RemoNico! They are a great place to start recording! I have an 2488 as well (I almost never use it anymore).

I've used it a lot though! It's great quality for the price!

uncle Sam

Mind if you share some recordings mate:)

[RemoHHX]

hey bro you said to stay away from NADY DMK 7 mics? i beg to differ. i'm getting almost-studio quality sounds from them. my friend who is going to a recording school helped me understand my mixer, so we tweaked around for about an hour and got some amazing sounds. it's the kind of thing you have to hear to believe though.

[Roshan]

hey bro you said to stay away from NADY DMK 7 mics? i beg to differ. i'm getting almost-studio quality sounds from them. my friend who is going to a recording school helped me understand my mixer, so we tweaked around for about an hour and got some amazing sounds. it's the kind of thing you have to hear to believe though.

lemme hear:D!

[surftex363]

hey bro you said to stay away from NADY DMK 7 mics? i beg to differ. i'm getting almost-studio quality sounds from them. my friend who is going to a recording school helped me understand my mixer, so we tweaked around for about an hour and got some amazing sounds. it's the kind of thing you have to hear to believe though.


they may sound good to you. but if you hear them against a real set of mics the difference is amazing. and i highley doubt your getting that good of sound out of em/.

[<3Josh<3]

Ok, so could I use the Behringer Xenyx 1222FX with the 6 XLR inputs, connect via USB to my computer, and get 6 different tracks? It says it comes with USB/Audio interface, so would that work? I'm 100% new to this so any help would be appreciated!
Josh

[<3Josh<3]

Bump?!

[SMX_Dizzy]

Ok, so could I use the Behringer Xenyx 1222FX with the 6 XLR inputs, connect via USB to my computer, and get 6 different tracks? It says it comes with USB/Audio interface, so would that work? I'm 100% new to this so any help would be appreciated!
Josh
No, you'd get 2 tracks: left and right, known as a stereo track. If you want 6 different tracks, you have to use firewire.

[<3Josh<3]

So, could I use just the PreSonus Firewire FP10, connect to computer via firewire, without using a mixer, or do I need a mixer AND firewire? Thanks!

[SMX_Dizzy]

No, you don't need one. With the Firepod, you do all your mixing in software.

[<3Josh<3]

No, you don't need one. With the Firepod, you do all your mixing in software.

Sweet, man thanks, you've been a huge help! Oh, and I'll get more than 2 tracks with firewire, right? Thanks!
Josh

[SMX_Dizzy]

Bingo. All tracks, be it 4, 8, 12, etc will be individual.

[<3Josh<3]

Just a question...what exactly is the difference between the firewire & USB connected Mixer that causes the mixer to send 2 tracks and the firewire to send a separate track per mic?

[Jonah Hex]

i have really heard very little about them, if that is true. that is ***

It is true - I looked at these before I bought my Alesis. Any USB mixer that is USB 1.1 will only send a stereo pair. Alesis recently introduced mixers that are USB 2.0 and they send seperate tracks to the PC but I'd still be leary of the latency over firewire.

Unfortunately, Alesis has stopped making the firewire versions (straight from them) in favor of the USB versions, which also currently cost more than the firewire ones still out there (for the 16 channel version anyway)...still mystified as to why this is....